G7 settings in Prinergy Refine

[lnivin]

Anyone willing to tell me how they set up their Prinergy Refine to Refine to Gracol standards?

Thank you,
Linda

 

[gordo]

Anyone willing to tell me how they set up their Prinergy Refine to Refine to Gracol standards?

Thank you,
Linda

G7 and GRACoL are two very different things.

G7 is a methodology for putting an output device into grey balance.

GRACoL refers to the IDEAlliance Committee formed to develop a document containing general guidelines and recommendations that could be used as a reference source across the industry for quality color printing.

You might be meaning GRACoL 7?

G7 makes use of 2D tone curves to put output into grey balance. You should be able to use Harmony software (part of Prinergy) to implement the needed plate curves.

GRACoL 7 is based on ISO 12647-2 which is a comprehensive specification for substrates and ink hue targets.

 

[lnivin]

Thank you! There's something new every day. What I'm looking for is if there is a standard setting for Prinergy ColorConvert to be GRACoL what is it?

 

[gordo]

Thank you! There's something new every day. What I'm looking for is if there is a standard setting for Prinergy ColorConvert to be GRACoL what is it?

This has been so for over 12 years. Are you looking for an ICC profile to convert RGB to CMYK? Or to convert CMYK to CMYK? Or?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

http://www.idealliance.org/specifications/gracol

http://www.idealliance.org/specifications/gracol/gracol-g7-downloads

If there is no GRACoL C1 profile installed with your version of Prinergy:

Downloads (GRACoL) | IDEAlliance

SWOP2013 and GRACoL2013 ICC Profiles | IDEAlliance

colormanagement - GRACoL Profile

ICC Profile Registry

GRACoL2006_Coated1v2

Later versions of Adobe software should also include a profile for GRACoL C1 created by Adobe. The following link should be suitable for both Mac and Win OS:

Adobe - ICC profiles : For Macintosh : ICC profile downloads for Mac OS


Hope this helps,

Stephen Marsh

 

[JoeatData]

Anyone willing to tell me how they set up their Prinergy Refine to Refine to Gracol standards?

Prinergy does have a select few profiles that are supplied. There is a ICC profile folder within Prinergy that you can add additional profiles to.

You can find additional profiles on the WEB. Start with the links that Stephen added with his comment.

Once you have loaded the desired profile/profiles you can edit your process template.

 

[lnivin]

Thank you!

 

[lnivin]

We have been testing some workflows. Has anyone else noticed that if you embed a SWOP Photoshop image into Illustrator and that file is then embedded into InDesign, the profile doesn't change at Prinergy (with Prinergy Process set to GRACoL), even if you say Replace all profiles?

Or am I missing something?

 

[JoeatData]

As I am looking at my Refine Process Template I am wondering if you have selected the "Override Embedded Profiles" ?

We have done a couple of tests where the profile was applied to the entire PDF but didn't notice that it didn't change the profile with an illustrator file. It's possible the test file I was using didn't have an illustrator file within it.

When Refining, we only allow the profile to convert RGB colors within the PDF(Convert to Destination). For the over-all GraCol Profile we apply that profile on the backend with EFI 5.0 when we are proofing a color PDF.

 

[lnivin]

So, if a customer would like to see their "GRACoL" PDF, there is no such thing?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

So, if a customer would like to see their "GRACoL" PDF, there is no such thing?

Sure there is! What exactly do you mean with this question?

Has any reply in the topic thread helped so far?

Have you found a suitable GRACoL profile on your system or downloaded one from the sites previously linked? Have you installed it into the appropriate volume/folder in your Prinergy system?

Do you wish to convert “some random or unknown” CMYK input into GRACoL (does the CMYK have a profile or is it untagged with no known ICC description)? Every conversion needs an explicit or implicit source profile.

Do you wish to see what the current CMYK values will look like in the GRACoL condition without converting/changing the files values?

At this point, there are more questions than answers!


Stephen Marsh

 

[lnivin]

Let me take another try at this as I've been testing workflows. In Adobe programs I'm working in a GRACoL Colorspace. I have an image that came in as RGB (in RGB colorspace). I saved a copy as RGB, SWOP, GRACoL. Placed these in Illustrator and saved. Then placed all of the above in InDesign, exported a PDF that uses GRACol Destination for all (did not use Preserve CMYK numbers).

The images came out looking differently in separations (I would have expected them to look the same).

These PDFs were then Refined in Prinergy with all profiles being replaced with GRACoL. Still the separations did not look the same.

What am I missing?

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Let me take another try at this as I've been testing workflows. In Adobe programs I'm working in a GRACoL Colorspace. I have an image that came in as RGB (in RGB colorspace). I saved a copy as RGB, SWOP, GRACoL. Placed these in Illustrator and saved. Then placed all of the above in InDesign, exported a PDF that uses GRACol Destination for all (did not use Preserve CMYK numbers).

The images came out looking differently in separations (I would have expected them to look the same).

These PDFs were then Refined in Prinergy with all profiles being replaced with GRACoL. Still the separations did not look the same.

What am I missing?

When you saved from Illustrator, was it as native .AI or as PDF? What exact colour settings did you select with regards to colour profiles?

I can’t reproduce your results in Adobe software. I saved the test images from Photoshop with tagged profiles. Placed them in Illustrator, including all profiles when saving as both .AI and .PDF. Confirmed that the PDF has the correct colour modes and profiles. Placed into InDesign and exported a PDF with convert to destination. In the PDF all linked image files were in the same destination CMYK with the same profile and same separation values.

You may need to document with screen captures.


Stephen Marsh

 

[lnivin]

I was placing images with a mix of profiles in Illustrator. GRACoL was my workspace and saved as .ai. Then placed in InDesign with GRACoL as my workspace, exported PDF with GRACoL as the Destination. I'll post some screenshots Monday.

Thank you for helping me!

 

[lnivin]

Here are the screenshots showing the Prinergy Process Color Convert and the resulting Refined PDF. The images all had different color profiles and were placed in Illustrator. That Illustrator file was then placed in InDesign. The PDF was exported from InDesign with no Color Management.

 

[lnivin]

Also, is G7 just a plate curve plus dot gain to keep colors in a specific range? Or is there more to it?

If you had a curve developed that previously worked great, it could be used if it passed the G7 test?

Thanks,
Linda

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I don’t currently have access to Prinergy. I am not a trained Prinergy operator (I am self taught and know just enough to get by, I may only use Prinergy for refining or output a few times a year, I usually just setup proofing process templates for clients).

The screen captures are very small.

It appears that you are ignoring tagged ICC profiles for RGB and CMYK. Do you know why you have it setup this way?

If you are ignoring incoming tagged ICC profiles, then you “succeed or fail” by the settings in the Assign Input Device Conditions area. It appears that you have no profiles selected to assume for CMYK, I can’t tell what you are assuming for RGB.

I am presuming that as you have not set CMYK profiles in the Assign Input Device Conditions area and that you are ignoring tagged colour profiles - that Prinergy has no way to know what the incoming CMYK data is, so it can’t convert it to another space, leaving it the same as it originally was.

Generally, it is best not to override colour profiles for RGB content. If the RGB is untagged, then set either sRGB or Adobe RGB as the input.

For CMYK, there is no easy answer.

Some prefer to leave the CMYK data unchanged to see how it will output in the final device condition (the files numbers/values take priority over any ICC profile in the incoming data).

Some prefer to change incoming CMYK data to the output, based on the incoming ICC profile (the ICC profile takes priority). If the incoming and outgoing profile are the same, then a conversion should not take place. If there is no ICC profile, then the CMYK is unchanged.

Generally, a CMYK colour transform is best handled via a devicelink profile, rather than a standard ICC device profile pair (source and destination).

So…unless I am mistaken, your setup is “CMYK safe” - it is presuming that CMYK data is “correct” before it enters Prinergy and that you are not changing it. If you wish Prinergy to change CMYK data, then you would need to set it up to change the incoming data.


Stephen Marsh

 

[lnivin]

I changed Refine Process. It just keeps getting more strange.

Refined File

Input File - all profiles converted to GRACoL in PitStop

Prinergy Process Color Convert settings


Forum must be reducing attachment size.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

The PDF was exported from InDesign with no Color Management.

Do you mean NO COLOUR CONVERSION?

If you wish to manage colour upstream of Prinergy in the PDF creation process, and you wish to “normalise” colour output to a GRACoL profile, then you would need to output with “convert to destination” or perhaps “convert to destination (preserve numbers)” depending on your goal.

Do you create all PDF files that go into Prinergy, or are you also supplied PDF files too?


Stephen Marsh

 

[lnivin]

We have two workflows. We create 80% which are the ones we want to maintain a GRACoL workflow.