Ink Save Software

[SPECMON]

What Ink saving software are people using, if any and how do you like it? We are thinking of integrating it into our work flow and wondering about the pro's and con's of using this software?

 

[cementary]

Kodak Ink Optimizer (Colorflow Pro).
No cons if used wisely

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Hello Specmon,

Any print production savings that can be achieved is good, BUT in this day of "Short Print Runs" using - Ink Saving Software would be at the

bottom of my list!

Saving a single sheet of B1 size 100gsm coated paper, saves a lot more than the Ink Cost Printed on the sheet!

Make- ready and the correct Pressroom SOPs would be the first fundamental to implement.


Regards, Alois

 

[gordo]

Idealliance and IPA did and “Ink Optimization Roundup” in 2010 testing different vendor’s systems on the same image file. You can buy it on their websites ( https://services.idealliance.org/Ite...6-c24969f7c24c ). The description of the report which begins "The world's leading digital press manufacturers" is totally wrong. Sigh :-(
Ink reduction is not so important in commercial sheetfed work because the cost of ink is small relative to the other manufacturing costs of printing a job. There are other ways to reduce production costs as Alois pointed out.
However, ink costs with web - coldest and heat - is significant. So that’s where the ROI is with ink reduction. The majority of newspaper printers are using it - not sure about publishers.

 

[D Ink Man]

Try a can of Economist.

 

[prepressdork]

I currently use Alwan's ColorHub.

Best regards,
pd

 

[CaseyVee]

Ink saving software is, if I remember well, based on GCR. Keeping the color stable during the printrun is easier after aplying GCR. It is frustrating for printers, in case of non-GCRed artwork, not achieving colorstability with e.g. greyish backgrounds (or other colors with a high grey component), in spite of the fact that the pressmen were doing their utmost. The real cost saving is to be found in preventing print runs to be rejected. Other pro's can are a.o.: 1) better curing because of lower ink loads, 2) happy printers, 3) happy customers.
Regards, Casey.

 

[gordo]

To be clear AFAIK all of the industry standard ICC profiles are GCR profiles. The difference with ink savings solutions is that their GCR is much more aggressive.
Note that it’s not all butterflies and rainbows with heavy GCR. It can happen that subject moiré caused by the black printer will appear that doesn’t when a more modest GCR separation is used. Also, because the black forms a greater proportion of the image, the quality of the black ink that’s being used becomes critical. This is especially true in coldest - newspaper - printing where the black ink is usually of very poor quality.

 

[Ergo]

Ink reduction is not so important in commercial sheetfed work because the cost of ink is small relative to the other manufacturing costs of printing a job. There are other ways to reduce production costs as Alois pointed out.

Yes you are right. But there is a much more important issue, the drying time, in other words after how long can the print be folded or foiled? The time thus shortened is the profit that Ink Saving programs give for sheetfed printing. And this is also significant.

 

[gordo]

Yes you are right. But there is a much more important issue, the drying time, in other words after how long can the print be folded or foiled? The time thus shortened is the profit that Ink Saving programs give for sheetfed printing. And this is also significant.

Do you have any data or studies that support that idea or are you speculating?

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Gordo, Ergo as no idea of the what "Ink Saving" means regarding Ink Drying - 1) UV /EB Inks 2) Heatset/ Coldset 3) Oxidation Drying

How can you save Ink if you are just printing Text/Solids and single colour halftones as individual KCMY!

Regards Alois

 

[Ergo]

Do you have any data or studies that support that idea or are you speculating?

No, this is not an idea, it is practice. If you work in a printing house you experience this, But test how much faster a 260% TAC print dries than a 330% TAC. When foiling, you can’t use too much powder. Anyway, with a B1 sheetfed machine, the ink savings in one year are approx. $ 14,000 I do not remember exactly, but we measured the ink flow and the calculation of Alwan was very good.

 

[Ergo]

Gordo, Ergo as no idea of the what "Ink Saving" means regarding Ink Drying - 1) UV /EB Inks 2) Heatset/ Coldset 3) Oxidation Drying

How can you save Ink if you are just printing Text/Solids and single colour halftones as individual KCMY!

Regards Alois

Ink Saving e.g. Alwan Dynamic Device Link Technology designed for magazines, and other 4colour publications. No effect on text, single color halftones. You can decrease ink film thickness and you are guaranteed to lose your customer.

Ink Save means using a strong special GCR technology.

 

[gordo]

No, this is not an idea, it is practice. If you work in a printing house you experience this, But test how much faster a 260% TAC print dries than a 330% TAC. When foiling, you can’t use too much powder. Anyway, with a B1 sheetfed machine, the ink savings in one year are approx. $ 14,000 I do not remember exactly, but we measured the ink flow and the calculation of Alwan was very good.

I can’t argue against anecdotal testimony.

 

[Ergo]

You don't have to, just have to think about it. But let's really finish. It's not worth that much. I’m past countless tests, I’ve only written in good faith and everything I have written works

 

[gordo]

You don't have to, just have to think about it. But let's really finish. It's not worth that much. I’m past countless tests, I’ve only written in good faith and everything I have written works

The problem for me about anecdotal testimony is that when I think about it I come to a different conclusion than you.
That's not to say you're wrong - you may be right.
I have not done direct tests of GCR separations (the standard for over 20 years) vs heavy GCR separations so I don't know the impact of heavy GCR on drying times.
But I have been involved in testing AM screening vs FM.
Based on those tests (published and confirmed by GATF) the two factors that play a major impact on drying time (all else being equal) are ink film thickness and area covered by the dots. Thinner ink films dry faster and smaller dot sizes dry faster. Both mechanisms mean that the dots give of their volatiles more quickly and/or absorb into the substrate more quickly resulting in faster drying times of screened areas.
Since their ink film thickness and area of coverage are unchanged, this is why large solid area drying times are unaffected.
Now, my speculation/thinking.
With heavy GCR the ink film thickness on the dots remains the same - so there is no impact on drying due to ink film thickness.
With heavy GCR the CMY dots may be shifted slightly in the tone scale - so they may end up slightly smaller - but IMHO not enough to have much, if any, of an impact on drying time. And you now have a greater amount of K ink - so even if there is a slight drying benefit with CMY you now how slower drying of K.
So, that is why I am sceptical about claims of heavy GCR delivering faster ink drying.
But, as I said, I'm speculating so I could be wrong.

 

[Ergo]

I understand what you're writing. We are a printing company that mainly operates Heatset presses with various machines of 16 pages to 72 pages, we use Agfa's built-in Ink Save program for Heatset machines and Alwan for sheetfed machines. I have been using the Alwan software since 2005. A test was done 12 years ago where we printed the same pages on a Rotoman machine using Alwan and without Alwan. The result showed that Alwan’s calculation is good enough. Later, on a sheetfed machine, I calculated Alwan’s ink savings for a year. There was no significant amount, but the price of the software and upgrades paid off. Today, in the Covid era, all money means a lot. Magazines were closed down or several editions were merged, the number of copies decreased, exports decreased. This is a difficult year and it is not over yet.

Because our printing house works according to the ISO12647:2-2014 standard, Alwan is very important for the conversion between color profiles, so it is a constant part of our daily work. We have observed that a digital press machine wrinkles paper on thinner paper over large areas of dark surfaces. With Alwan Dynamic GCR this problem can also be remedied in most cases.

In response to your entry, we use a Hybrid screening for all presses. The color order when printing is KCMY (do not talk about Pantone colors). The ink thickness is the same on the sheet, of course, but due to the screening angle, as the image gets darker, the ink dots overlap on an ever-increasing surface. The first color is in direct contact with the paper, while the others are printed to the previous ink (or inks) layer, only a small area contacts with the paper. Enlarged black dots are applied directly to the paper, with the rest of the ink only partially. Therefore, it does not matter how much ink is stacked on a given surface, in what area. I would rather say that with Alwan’s dynamic GCR method, the drying time decreases in the darker areas of the image, and plays a lesser role in lighter areas and midtones. But it is also the goal of reducing the amount of total imk in the dark area.

We are a production company where we face a lot of problems every day. We can’t do scientific research, but we solve problems somehow.

I really like the FM screening, we used it in my previous company, but only on Heatset machines which has a drying unit.

 

[gordo]

Short background: I posted about ink savings via reseparation on my blog in 2009. It subsequently became the basis for the IPA Ink Optimization RoundUP technical evaluation of ink optimization software presented at the IPA Technical Conference in June 2010.

Your post clears up what I got confused by. Thanks.

Snipped for clarity.

We are a printing company that mainly operates Heatset presses with various machines of 16 pages to 72 pages, we use Agfa's built-in Ink Save program for Heatset machines and Alwan for sheetfed machines. I have been using the Alwan software since 2005. A test was done 12 years ago where we printed the same pages on a Rotoman machine using Alwan and without Alwan. The result showed that Alwan’s calculation is good enough. Later, on a sheetfed machine, I calculated Alwan’s ink savings for a year. There was no significant amount, but the price of the software and upgrades paid off.

Most coldset printers reseparate and I would speculate heatset printers as well. They do it primarily to bring files to a common CMYK condition and for ink savings. Ink is a major cost for heatset and coldset printers. Even small reductions can lead to millions of dollars in savings. For sheetfed, ink is not a significant cost relative to the value of the job. Also, unlike in publications work, incoming files tend to already have a common CMYK condition. So reseparation is not typical in sheetfed work.

In response to your entry, we use a Hybrid screening for all presses.

If by Hybrid screening you mean something like Agfa Sublima then you are using a conventional AM screen which, except for the 1%-2% dots, is identical to Agfa Balanced Screening.

The color order when printing is KCMY (do not talk about Pantone colors). The ink thickness is the same on the sheet, of course, but due to the screening angle, as the image gets darker, the ink dots overlap on an ever-increasing surface.

Correct, and normal for AM screens.

The first color is in direct contact with the paper, while the others are printed to the previous ink (or inks) layer, only a small area contacts with the paper. Enlarged black dots are applied directly to the paper, with the rest of the ink only partially. Therefore, it does not matter how much ink is stacked on a given surface, in what area.

Here you are referring to TAC (Total Area Coverage) i.e. the maximum percentages of ink in the darkest area of an image - not GCR.

I would rather say that with Alwan’s dynamic GCR method, the drying time decreases in the darker areas of the image, and plays a lesser role in lighter areas and midtones. But it is also the goal of reducing the amount of total imk in the dark area.

These are two separate issues - TAC reduction and GCR. Alwan is probably doing both to your incoming files.

We are a production company where we face a lot of problems every day. We can’t do scientific research, but we solve problems somehow.

Totally agree.

I really like the FM screening, we used it in my previous company, but only on Heatset machines which has a drying unit.

FM and DM screening is used to print millions of pages weekly on heatset and coldset presses and is a great complement to ink optimization systems such as the one you use.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Gentlemen,

Ink saving cost software - is not of primary concern in Heatset Web Offset, what is though is the Energy Costs used by the Dryer to be had by

reducing IFT in the dense reproduction areas - by doing so it reduces costs. The gist of this conversation is saving money alone by Ink!, there are

many more ways of saving production costs.




Regards, Alois.

 

[gordo]

Gentlemen,

Ink saving cost software - is not of primary concern in Heatset Web Offset, what is though is the Energy Costs used by the Dryer to be had by

reducing IFT in the dense reproduction areas - by doing so it reduces costs. The gist of this conversation is saving money alone by Ink!, there are

many more ways of saving production costs.




Regards, Alois.

I have to disagree about ink savings not being of primary concern in Heatset Web Offset. The cost savings can be in the millions on that alone. Reduction of dryer energy costs is certainly also a major factor. And I agree that there are many more ways of saving production costs.