Is it just me? Am I unlucky?

[gazfocus]

I've posted before about the fact I used to have a Konica C3070 and decided to sell that about a year ago and kept my Versant 80, and how much I regretted that decision.

However, I am constantly having issues with the Versant 80 and it's driving me insane. Countless issues with lines/streaks in prints, some are fixed with a new drum, some have needed developer and housing replacing, and I've just had to have the slip sheet replaced in the fuser to get rid of some lines only to now be getting lines again. Solid blocks of colour are rubbish and now the roller that takes the paper into the duplexer has broken so having to manually duplex everything until an engineer comes (no big deal really...at least it still prints), and for some reason the high capacity feeder doesn't like feeding 170gsm Silk from the top tray so have to run it from the bottom tray.

Thankfully the Versant 80 is still on a service contract so it's not costing me endless fortunes to fix issues, but I'm getting so sick of there being an issue (particularly the lines) every time I try and print something.

Seriously wondering, have I just been unlucky with this particular machine or are Versant 80's just rubbish?

Asking because we are hoping to get a new machine in January/February and had planned on getting another Xerox (mainly because the finishing options are cheaper than the likes of Konica) but I hate Xerox right now.

 

[SoggyWinter]

V3100 here. I'm chronically frustrated too. I'd lean towards Ricoh equipment next based on available service options in my area.

 

[gazfocus]

V3100 here. I'm chronically frustrated too. I'd lean towards Ricoh equipment next based on available service options in my area.

What sort of issues do you have? The 3100 was one of the machines I was considering but I think it’s too big a machine for me really.

 

[tngcas]

To the best of my knowledge there is no substantial difference between the Versant 2100 and the Versant 3100. They're still the same basic print engine. We had the exact same problems with our v2100s that you're reporting. Xerox would have to pull of a miracle to ever earn my business back.

 

[gazfocus]

To the best of my knowledge there is no substantial difference between the Versant 2100 and the Versant 3100. They're still the same basic print engine. We had the exact same problems with our v2100s that you're reporting. Xerox would have to pull of a miracle to ever earn my business back.

Interesting to see the issues are similar in the 2100/3100. Doesn’t give me any confidence that a v180/280 will be any better which is really disappointing.

Might have a look at the Ricoh C5300s…I think the C7200s would be too large for our space currently.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Interesting to see the issues are similar in the 2100/3100. Doesn’t give me any confidence that a v180/280 will be any better which is really disappointing.

Might have a look at the Ricoh C5300s…I think the C7200s would be too large for our space currently.

We've been running two Versant 180s and I'm just going to say that I absolutely 100% love the machines. There is almost nothing I throw at the machine that it doesn't do. We've had them since 2018 and the only real bump in the road has been the drum and toner issue from Covid times, which has been masterfully resolved. The drums on the Versant now last much much longer than they did before the Covid issue arose. In fact, they typically keep running past the 0% life indicator on the Fiery.

That all being said, the only real issue we've had since the Covid drum debacle has been due to us running the machine pretty heavy. I won't disclose my numbers here, but the components surrounding the registration assembly, that typically never need to be replaced during the life of the machine, wore out and we were trying to find the fix for our registration issues for about two months. We had ways around it, and only had one job of 200 sheets 4:4 that I rejected for quality issues. Registration on heavy and light stocks is consistent, we maybe need to calibrate our business card stock every two weeks.

We have the Versant 180p with the full bleed booklet maker + square edge module, and it's been amazing. I keep thinking about when we get the next machine, that I would forego inline booklet finishing and get an offline booklet finisher, but honestly the simplicity and reliability of our booklet maker has been amazing.

We will likely keep the machines until 2026 when they are due to be EOL by Xerox, and I dread getting new machines unless they represent massive improvements.

I feel like sharing my experience is relevant because it's the exact opposite of what many claim to be going through.

 

[chrisio]

We've been running two Versant 180s and I'm just going to say that I absolutely 100% love the machines. There is almost nothing I throw at the machine that it doesn't do. We've had them since 2018 and the only real bump in the road has been the drum and toner issue from Covid times, which has been masterfully resolved. The drums on the Versant now last much much longer than they did before the Covid issue arose. In fact, they typically keep running past the 0% life indicator on the Fiery.

That all being said, the only real issue we've had since the Covid drum debacle has been due to us running the machine pretty heavy. I won't disclose my numbers here, but the components surrounding the registration assembly, that typically never need to be replaced during the life of the machine, wore out and we were trying to find the fix for our registration issues for about two months. We had ways around it, and only had one job of 200 sheets 4:4 that I rejected for quality issues. Registration on heavy and light stocks is consistent, we maybe need to calibrate our business card stock every two weeks.

We have the Versant 180p with the full bleed booklet maker + square edge module, and it's been amazing. I keep thinking about when we get the next machine, that I would forego inline booklet finishing and get an offline booklet finisher, but honestly the simplicity and reliability of our booklet maker has been amazing.

We will likely keep the machines until 2026 when they are due to be EOL by Xerox, and I dread getting new machines unless they represent massive improvements.

I feel like sharing my experience is relevant because it's the exact opposite of what many claim to be going through.

I'm going to agree with you. We have had a v80 for a few years and apart from chewing through 2nd btrs it just ran and ran. In the last year or so our volume tripled so we started to see some weird issues but always resolved and we have put it down to the usage. We upgraded just this week to a 3100 and hope it co tinues

 

[gazfocus]

We've been running two Versant 180s and I'm just going to say that I absolutely 100% love the machines. There is almost nothing I throw at the machine that it doesn't do. We've had them since 2018 and the only real bump in the road has been the drum and toner issue from Covid times, which has been masterfully resolved. The drums on the Versant now last much much longer than they did before the Covid issue arose. In fact, they typically keep running past the 0% life indicator on the Fiery.

That all being said, the only real issue we've had since the Covid drum debacle has been due to us running the machine pretty heavy. I won't disclose my numbers here, but the components surrounding the registration assembly, that typically never need to be replaced during the life of the machine, wore out and we were trying to find the fix for our registration issues for about two months. We had ways around it, and only had one job of 200 sheets 4:4 that I rejected for quality issues. Registration on heavy and light stocks is consistent, we maybe need to calibrate our business card stock every two weeks.

We have the Versant 180p with the full bleed booklet maker + square edge module, and it's been amazing. I keep thinking about when we get the next machine, that I would forego inline booklet finishing and get an offline booklet finisher, but honestly the simplicity and reliability of our booklet maker has been amazing.

We will likely keep the machines until 2026 when they are due to be EOL by Xerox, and I dread getting new machines unless they represent massive improvements.

I feel like sharing my experience is relevant because it's the exact opposite of what many claim to be going through.

Thanks for your input, it is nice to hear the other side.

Can I ask what your experience is of printing solid colours?

Have you ever experienced another brand of machine to compare your experience with?

 

[gazfocus]

I'm going to agree with you. We have had a v80 for a few years and apart from chewing through 2nd btrs it just ran and ran. In the last year or so our volume tripled so we started to see some weird issues but always resolved and we have put it down to the usage. We upgraded just this week to a 3100 and hope it co tinues

I’d love to know how you get on with your 3100. I was convinced I was going to upgrade to the 3100 as we do a lot of 350gsn card stock but I don’t have space for a near 5 meter wide machine haha.

 

[chrisio]

I’d love to know how you get on with your 3100. I was convinced I was going to upgrade to the 3100 as we do a lot of 350gsn card stock but I don’t have space for a near 5 meter wide machine haha.

It's only been running for day since being installed and so far so good. Ran a couple of 1000 yesterday and today and so far so good. Registration is a game changer as it was always a bugbear on the 80.

I think these things like to run hard and not sit idle for a long periods.

 

[gazfocus]

It's only been running for day since being installed and so far so good. Ran a couple of 1000 yesterday and today and so far so good. Registration is a game changer as it was always a bugbear on the 80.

I think these things like to run hard and not sit idle for a long periods.

We’ve never had an issue with registration on our Versant 80 to be fair. It’s just solid colours are awful and constant banding within a day or two of the engineer fixing one lot of banding. The below photos are meant to be solid magenta and solid cyan. The green is also supposed to be a solid green.

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

Thanks for your input, it is nice to hear the other side.

Can I ask what your experience is of printing solid colours?

Have you ever experienced another brand of machine to compare your experience with?

I see what you are posting and in the last few years there has not been a request from any of my extremely diverse set of clients that has shown issues similar to what you are showing me, that has not been resolved by replacing drums/developers/transfer rollers/etc.

I think if you use the little stick with the brush on it, and clean above the drums, that should eliminate the problem on the green sheet.

 

[gazfocus]

I see what you are posting and in the last few years there has not been a request from any of my extremely diverse set of clients that has shown issues similar to what you are showing me, that has not been resolved by replacing drums/developers/transfer rollers/etc.

I think if you use the little stick with the brush on it, and clean above the drums, that should eliminate the problem on the green sheet.

The green was actually fixed by the engineer replacing the cyan drum, and cyan developer and housing in the end but two weeks later, the cyan drum began putting a line down everything with cyan in it so had to swap that again yesterday. The engineer also ordered up a spare drum for the yellow but I had to put that in the magenta slot yesterday too.

The magenta and cyan sheets above are after the new drums went in and I’m still getting darker lines as you can just about see in the attached image (in the centre of the red box).

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

The green was actually fixed by the engineer replacing the cyan drum, and cyan developer and housing in the end but two weeks later, the cyan drum began putting a line down everything with cyan in it so had to swap that again yesterday. The engineer also ordered up a spare drum for the yellow but I had to put that in the magenta slot yesterday too.

The magenta and cyan sheets above are after the new drums went in and I’m still getting darker lines as you can just about see in the attached image (in the centre of the red box).

It sounds like you have different drums than us. Take a picture of your new drums. I'm curious if they are the same color as ours.

 

[gazfocus]

It sounds like you have different drums than us. Take a picture of your new drums. I'm curious if they are the same color as ours.

Definitely will do when I’m at the office tomorrow. Our drums are a black casing with a shiny green roller.

 

[TJPrinter]

I have issues with my 280 but there hasn’t been anything that couldn’t be resolved in a day or maybe two. I’m overall happy with the performance with the exception of the 2nd BTR failure when running coated stock, it’s much worse that it ever was on the 80 I had. The 280 has improvements for registration on duplexing heavier stock and I’m happy with the output for full coverage. I can’t say that I see the service tech that often but I did for the first two years because of faulty toner and maybe some sloppy manufacturing.

The duplexing unit can have problems with the long belt that drives the rollers, it’s a very long belt that goes from end to end of the duplex unit. The belt can be tightened so it won’t slip but most of the time the bearings need to be replaced because they get too much paper dust in them after a while and start to bind. My old Xerox tech would carry the kit of replacement bearings, it doesn’t take long to replace all of them.

I still get the occasional drum that fails because of spots but the problem is significantly better than it was in the past. I have spares on the shelf and it’s a quick replacement, so no big deal really. The drums I get are green and manufactured in Mexico.

I did look at Ricoh, but they weren’t price competitive, at least not in my area, and any advantage they may have had wouldn’t have made up for the increase in operating cost. I’m sure this isn’t the case everywhere, but I was disappointed that Ricoh was so expensive compared to Xerox and Canon.

I haven’t seen any news about improvements to the Versant 280 and it seems like a revised model is overdue compared to past model improvements. Fujifilm now has the ApeosPro C series and Xerox the Primelink C9200 series they call entry level production, but I don’t think they can handle the same monthly volumes that the Versant 80/180/280 can. They do look interesting, and they claim front to back registration is .5mm and most interesting is the ability to increase gloss level. They use the same feeders and finishers as the Versant and use a new toner that is similar to what the Iridesse uses. I’d like to know more about these and the Xerox version won’t be available here until November. Maybe it’s just a beefed-up office machine, I really don’t know for sure.

 

[gazfocus]

I have issues with my 280 but there hasn’t been anything that couldn’t be resolved in a day or maybe two. I’m overall happy with the performance with the exception of the 2nd BTR failure when running coated stock, it’s much worse that it ever was on the 80 I had. The 280 has improvements for registration on duplexing heavier stock and I’m happy with the output for full coverage. I can’t say that I see the service tech that often but I did for the first two years because of faulty toner and maybe some sloppy manufacturing.

The duplexing unit can have problems with the long belt that drives the rollers, it’s a very long belt that goes from end to end of the duplex unit. The belt can be tightened so it won’t slip but most of the time the bearings need to be replaced because they get too much paper dust in them after a while and start to bind. My old Xerox tech would carry the kit of replacement bearings, it doesn’t take long to replace all of them.

I still get the occasional drum that fails because of spots but the problem is significantly better than it was in the past. I have spares on the shelf and it’s a quick replacement, so no big deal really. The drums I get are green and manufactured in Mexico.

I did look at Ricoh, but they weren’t price competitive, at least not in my area, and any advantage they may have had wouldn’t have made up for the increase in operating cost. I’m sure this isn’t the case everywhere, but I was disappointed that Ricoh was so expensive compared to Xerox and Canon.

I haven’t seen any news about improvements to the Versant 280 and it seems like a revised model is overdue compared to past model improvements. Fujifilm now has the ApeosPro C series and Xerox the Primelink C9200 series they call entry level production, but I don’t think they can handle the same monthly volumes that the Versant 80/180/280 can. They do look interesting, and they claim front to back registration is .5mm and most interesting is the ability to increase gloss level. They use the same feeders and finishers as the Versant and use a new toner that is similar to what the Iridesse uses. I’d like to know more about these and the Xerox version won’t be available here until November. Maybe it’s just a beefed-up office machine, I really don’t know for sure.

So, our Xerox service provider has come back saying that the darker line on the printed sheet is called 'impulse banding' and is typically caused by us printing mostly 350gsm coated stock.They've said that slowing the fuser down should solve the problem but if that doesn't work, there's nothing else they can do and that the print falls within the realms of the customer expectation document.

I'm glad to hear you're running a 280 without much of an issue. Can I ask which Ricoh you looked at? I've been researching the Ricoh C5300s which for the basic spec I believe is around $25k though I've not had any response from Ricoh UK yet with regards to getting a firm quote.

I do remember when we bought our Konica C3070, I was shocked at the price difference between KM options and Xerox options, with KM being quite a bit more expensive but having said that, I do think the build quality of KM machines is better.

The Xerox Primelink range are replacements for the Xerox C60/70 type of printers so they're 'light production' machines. Price wise, once you've spec'd the high capacity trays and a fiery, you're not far off the cost of a Versant 280 but I think they're better for lower volume printing as they don't need to be run as much as a Versant to keep it happy.

 

[TJPrinter]

Back in 2020 I had pricing on both the C5310s and C7200s. Both were quoted to be similarly equipped as the Versant 280. Versant 280 has the Fiery strapped on the back, 2 oversized high capacity trays and production ready finisher, nothing special. Over a 60 month lease the C5310s would have cost me about $27,000 more than the 280 and the C7200s would have cost me about $40,000 more than the 280. They gave me a higher click rate on the C5320s making it basically the same overall cost or maybe a little higher as the C7200s over a 60 month period based on my volume, and I’m not a heavy user.

This was just my experience with looking at Ricoh and from others on this board, this is not always the case when it comes to pricing. Even with the Versant 280 having what I would call a significant problem with coated stock causing the 2nd BTR to have a short life, I would still not jump on either of the Ricoh’s for the price difference.

If you decide to stay with Xerox I would highly recommend that you have a solid agreement that allows you to keep a spare 2nd BTR on the shelf at all times. I average about 55,000 clicks before the 2nd BTR goes bad and I’ve gone as low as 23,000 clicks when running more coated stock, especially heavier stock. I do like the 280 and I’m not so sure other options would allow me to print envelopes as easily as I do on the 280 and that would be a deal breaker for me. I have no interest in getting into ink jetting envelopes at this point in my career, for volumes I do, the Versant is just fine.

 

[gazfocus]

Back in 2020 I had pricing on both the C5310s and C7200s. Both were quoted to be similarly equipped as the Versant 280. Versant 280 has the Fiery strapped on the back, 2 oversized high capacity trays and production ready finisher, nothing special. Over a 60 month lease the C5310s would have cost me about $27,000 more than the 280 and the C7200s would have cost me about $40,000 more than the 280. They gave me a higher click rate on the C5320s making it basically the same overall cost or maybe a little higher as the C7200s over a 60 month period based on my volume, and I’m not a heavy user.

This was just my experience with looking at Ricoh and from others on this board, this is not always the case when it comes to pricing. Even with the Versant 280 having what I would call a significant problem with coated stock causing the 2nd BTR to have a short life, I would still not jump on either of the Ricoh’s for the price difference.

If you decide to stay with Xerox I would highly recommend that you have a solid agreement that allows you to keep a spare 2nd BTR on the shelf at all times. I average about 55,000 clicks before the 2nd BTR goes bad and I’ve gone as low as 23,000 clicks when running more coated stock, especially heavier stock. I do like the 280 and I’m not so sure other options would allow me to print envelopes as easily as I do on the 280 and that would be a deal breaker for me. I have no interest in getting into ink jetting envelopes at this point in my career, for volumes I do, the Versant is just fine.

Thanks for this, I really value your comments.

I have to say, other than the quality issues, I love the Versant 80. Registering stocks is far easier than the KM (I didn’t have the IQ module as that was nearly as much as the press cost), and as you say the Versant prints envelopes with the same fuser whereas KM was an extra £3.5k for the envelope fuser.

We don’t print envelopes currently but we are moving into more greeting card production and being able to print on the greeting card envelopes could prove to be invaluable as a value added feature.

The idea of having a spare 2nd btr is good advice and I might see if I can get that agreed.

What I may do is buy a refurbished Versant 180 from a dealer that will offer service on it, get a whole set of new drums, developer & housings, etc and get it properly set up with density adjusts etc, and see how that goes as a replacement for my V80 as I’m still convinced I’ve just got a bit of an unhappy machine.

If all is well then, I’ll hang on to see what replaces the V280 and then hopefully pounce on a brand new machine.

 

[chrisio]

Thanks for this, I really value your comments.

I have to say, other than the quality issues, I love the Versant 80. Registering stocks is far easier than the KM (I didn’t have the IQ module as that was nearly as much as the press cost), and as you say the Versant prints envelopes with the same fuser whereas KM was an extra £3.5k for the envelope fuser.

We don’t print envelopes currently but we are moving into more greeting card production and being able to print on the greeting card envelopes could prove to be invaluable as a value added feature.

The idea of having a spare 2nd btr is good advice and I might see if I can get that agreed.

What I may do is buy a refurbished Versant 180 from a dealer that will offer service on it, get a whole set of new drums, developer & housings, etc and get it properly set up with density adjusts etc, and see how that goes as a replacement for my V80 as I’m still convinced I’ve just got a bit of an unhappy machine.

If all is well then, I’ll hang on to see what replaces the V280 and then hopefully pounce on a brand new machine.

What sort of volume do you currently do? I found with mine that it sort of followed a bell curve in that between 40 to 60k per month and I hardly saw an engineer but either side of that I had stupid niggly problems.

Apart from the impulse banding problem you have which is inherent could it be that you are not printing enough to keep it in the sweet spot.

All that said, my new to me 3100 has spat its dummy out 3 days into owning It with a fuser fault. I hate printers