Kodak Approval replacement?

[Simon Ivarsson]

Im looking for a replacement for the Kodak Approval.
We do mostly packaging so the requirements are:
Substrate: metallic foil, transparent film
Special Ink: Metallic & White
Colour accurate

Currently we are using Epson 7900 with gmg for normal proofs and Kodak Approval for anything that requires white, metallic or different substrates.

 

[schenkadere]

Epson WT7900...Had one when they first came out...not the greatest, but it allowed me to proof on metallic substrate which was critical for our business.

 

[chevalier]

There are no legitimate machines out there that can do the same thing or even honestly call themselves competitive. I find this distressing because there are constant rumors that both the Kodak Approval and Fujifilm FinalProof are going to be given EOL designation any day now.

I am in the same situation but I have a Fujifilm FinalProof (virtually the same device). We've kicked the tires of: Epson WT, the Roland VersaUV and VersaCAMM. None can do everything that a FinalProof or Approval can. This is especially relevant when it comes to print quality and color accuracy.

I was very positive and interested in regard to the Roland VersaUV LEC but the color and print quality samples we had made were atrociously bad. It was comparable to that of an aqueous inkjet proofer 15 years ago. I could invest in a full line of small format screen printing equipment to simulate coatings for less than the cost of that one machine (which we are actively considering).

 

[michaelejahn]

I would have to agree with Chevalier - really not anything out there that would deliver what you want for a similar price point as the Approval.

If I were faced with this issue, and needed an option tomorrow-ish, I might find a Indigo owner and see if you can work a deal.

 

[Clyde Baumwell]

Please look at my website, Package Proofing, Prototypes and Mock-ups for a digital print replacement for the the Kodak Approval.
There are printers made by Epson, Mimaki and Roland that offer eco-solvent inks (fumeless) that print white and silver + the normal/expanded color inksets on our materials. I do not sell printers, but they are relatively inexpensive for what they do. Some even have a print/cut options

What I do offer are compatible substrates such as pressure sensitive foil and foil bag films, "no label look" clear pressure sensitive, clear and white bag films, shrink films and Liquipak film. Our pressure sensitive materials can be used for labels or cold laminated to board, clear box material, holographic board, etc.

I can send out printed samples and supply any information you need.
Clyde Baumwell

 

[csawatzki]

If you want to reach out, please do. I do quite a bit of consulting in this space.

Cory Sawatzki
[email protected]
469-879-5546

 

[KenZidek]

Found the perfect replace for the Kodak here at GEI Graphics. It is the Oris Professional Proofing System. It does all the whites and metallic with extreme precision. The extended gamut inks are extremely reliable and accurate. The support we have gotten from CGS has been outstanding and they totally stand behind there products. We are 100% satisfied and even thou we took our time changing over to a different system, it was extremely overdue and wish we would have done it sooner because of the cost being to economical compared to the Kodak. We are actually saving money. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Thanks Ken
630-595-0400

 

[michaelejahn]

@KenZidek

What printing system are you using - Epson Stylus Pro 4000 ? or the Epson WT7900 ?

my experience is that the Epson WT device is VERY sensitive to scratching / fingerprint oils and does not really image onto any substrate you wish ( which was a qualifier of the OP )

 

[KenZidek]

CGS answer

CGS answer

We are using a Roland printing system with extended gamut inks. We purchased the system from CGS and the inks do not scratch after they have dried. We use a transfer media just like the intermediate transfer that the Kodak uses. This transfer media transfers to all types of substrates.

@KenZidek

What printing system are you using - Epson Stylus Pro 4000 ? or the Epson WT7900 ?

my experience is that the Epson WT device is VERY sensitive to scratching / fingerprint oils and does not really image onto any substrate you wish ( which was a qualifier of the OP )

 

[michaelejahn]

We are using a Roland printing system ...

Why not share which model ?

-- like the Roland SOLJET Pro 4 XR-640 ?

Do they make a smaller one ( for proofing? ) or - it is just because you do large format, that you happen to have a beast to make proofs with ...

- ( but you didn't buy it for that, you bought it to print and sell printing ? )

 

[chevalier]

I'm guessing VersaCAMM VSi? When I was pitched on this product it was explained to me that I had to print on transfer material and then laminate it to the substrate just like my FinalProof.

 

[cosnet]

@KenZidek

What printing system are you using - Epson Stylus Pro 4000 ? or the Epson WT7900 ?

my experience is that the Epson WT device is VERY sensitive to scratching / fingerprint oils and does not really image onto any substrate you wish ( which was a qualifier of the OP )

Hi Michael,
It is the Roland VS300i. Using CGS extended gamut inks, cmykog, plus white and metallic. The inks are fully authorized by Roland. So even though the vs300 is normally CMYK only we created a driver to change light magenta and light cyan to orange and green. Cgs has new software for the packaging industry called ORIS Flex Pack // WEB.

 

[KenZidek]

It is a Roland VS300I.
It is a proofing machine and we don't use it for large format printing.
We bought it from CGS and they modified the machine to work with their software.

 

[SueK]

Simon, Hi! We would be happy to discuss your needs. However, let me clarify a couple of items. First, Kodak is committed to Kodak Approval and we continue to invest in hardware and software solutions to maintain and help you grow your business. At Kodak, we have two key business and portfolio planning processes, an annual plan and a 5 year outlook. Kodak Approval is a key component for both. Crazy as it sounds, 2015 marks the 25th anniversary of the introduction of the KODAK APPROVAL Digital Color Imaging System. An incredible achievement for a technology that changed the face of digital proofing, and to this day remains the most versatile and best predictor of actual press performance available on the market. The APPROVAL System business continues to be important to us, and we hope we can continue to serve the needs of your company and your customers. We truly appreciate your business.

Here is a link to our web site for Approval customers in regards to the Approval system:My Kodak Approval

 

[cosnet]

I'm guessing VersaCAMM VSi? When I was pitched on this product it was explained to me that I had to print on transfer material and then laminate it to the substrate just like my FinalProof.

While we do have transfer media to laminate to any stock we also have CGS Eco Solvent medias in which you print on directly. Such as Shrink, white board, silver, foils, etc. The Transfer is now on its fourth generation being thinner and more flexible. It can be additionally processed to achieve Semi-Matte and Matte finishes besides Gloss.

Also we can create special marks which can be used to bring to an LEC for various varnishes and embossing. ORIS Flex Pack Drives LEC, VS(i), XR, and LEJ model Rolands.

For further information see CGS � ORIS FLEX PACK // WEB
OR contact us via the web contact page

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Simon, you should probably talk with Schawk upstream (or is that Matthews International), as far as I am aware there is/was a worldwide requirement for regional operations to have both Kodak Approvals and CGS Flex Pack options.


Stephen Marsh

 

[Simon Ivarsson]

Thank you everyone for your input.
Stephen: Yes, there are corporate decisions regarding a lot of things.
But I still find Printplanet and your experience extremely valuable.