Konica c6501 vs Xerox docucolor 260

[GregNac19]

Doubtful - Xerox wants way too much money for the 700, especially since it won't even run 100# gloss cover. We did a demo and provided all the paper we stock before we bought our second Océ CS665 and the Xerox service manager refused to sign off on our materials. You will always beat the stuffing out of a KM guy because he's used to selling office crap - basically what your 700 is. Don't beat your chest too hard.

Same stuffing beating here! The 700 WILL run 100# gloss all day. The 700 is not an office product and has never been.
Why would you (who sells KM be going to a demo for Xerox)
By the way my chest hurts every night because of the killer product (DC700s) sold in my territory. I have never seen and I don't even think there is a KM 6501 or 6500 in my entire terrritory!
But hey, that doesn't mean the KM6501 doesn't exist. There us just a better chance of seeing a Leprechauns, a balanaced budget, Al Gore with a fun personality, ABC-NBC-CBS with non-biased coverage, Cubs winning the World Series, Disney World saying "come stay with us for free", Michael Vick being spokesman for PETA, and Barkack Obama realizing Global Warming has been over for 2 years and we as humans having no effect the climate change.
Yeah that'll be the dayhaha that I die!

 

[UberTech]

Where are you based Gregnac? There is obviously a huge untapped resource in your area. I'll send the boys in and we will scoop that up for you.

 

[lfelton]

Hi, Sorry to but in!
I have noticed the Konica machines quoted in this thread but not sure what the UK equivelent Oce machine is?

Finding this thread Very interesting as our company are about to dip our toes into the Digital Press market after a few years of buying short run trade Digital at 0.40p per A3 (single sided) and selling it on (we are n the UK). BUT the short run stuff has increased to such an extent that we would be fools not to get our own piece of kit! All work we have bought in has been done on a Kodak Nexpress but have been shown the Oce cs655 and by Xerox we have been pitched the Docucolor 250 as its equivalent. To us they seem Very different machines. Are there any unbiased offerings that may help us decide. OR any other options. I have noticed the Konica machines quoted in this thread but not sure what the UK equivelent Oce machine is?
Cheers
Mikee

I believe the Oce 655 is the same as the KM 6501, this is NOT the equivilent machine to the Xerox 250. The closest Xerox is the 700. The 250 has pleasing colour, but the colour accuracy and paper handling are relatively poor compared with the X700/Oce655/KM6501.

If you are being offered a 250, then of course it will be second hand. If you just bought it I suspect that you bought our old backup machine! It was chopped into Xerox a couple of weeks ago and they were just in and bragged about how they had sold it immediately. If it has a high cap feeder, then it's almost certainly our old one. Don't worry, it's a good 'un! I did advertise it on this forum for anyone who who wanted to pay the px price (i.e. next to nothing), but no-one took me up on it.

BTW, if you were paying 40p for trade digital then bless you and I wish we had some customers like you. The going rate for trade in the UK is around 20p a side, so I hope they treated you extra well!!

 

[gcspec]

Take a good look at the Xerox 700DCP. If quality and productivity are important to you at all, then you will appreciate the higher gamut, front to back registration and 2,400 X 2,400 dpi resolution.

Now, I want to be right up front and state that I work for Xerox today, but just 20 months ago I operated a print company with 2 Konica's - a C500 and C650, also had a 8050 prior and these machines are good, but not great when it comes to color consistency and gradients. (bandy and blocky) This is where the 700 shows it's true strength. So many times I had to eat jobs because the color was so far off from the previous time and I calibrated all the time and really knew my way around color. I had to start keeping samples of every job I ran and reference them everytime I ran another job to make sure they matched. Usually this required 30 to 40 minutes of "adjusting" the curves in the KM to make sure they were as close as possible, but the color would drift within the job so drastically that it was a losing battle.

 

[gcspec]

I sell Xerox 700's all the time and go up against the ultra-cheap Ikon used inventory and win most of the time. (only when the customer is concerned with quality and productivity that is) The 700 is NOT an office solution and does not compare at all with the DC242/252/260 family - it's a completely different animal. Trust me, the Xerox 700 is priced right where it needs to be and your Xerox rep can help you grow your business through extensive training and resources. KM will sell you box and come back 4 years from now to sell you another. No clue how to help you increase your revenue.

 

[leetaylor]

your Xerox rep can help you grow your business through extensive training and resources. KM will sell you box and come back 4 years from now to sell you another. No clue how to help you increase your revenue.

The opposite is true in our area.

We purchased a Docucolor5000 two years ago and never see our Xerox Rep.

All the talk of Profit Accelerator and "helping to grow your business" from Xerox is absolute nonsense.

 

[gcspec]

I am sorry to hear that as I consider my main job to be business development and secondary to be "speeds and feeds" of printers. What area are you located in?

 

[leetaylor]

I am sorry to hear that as I consider my main job to be business development and secondary to be "speeds and feeds" of printers. What area are you located in?

South West, England, United Kingdom.

 

[Jtamoe46]

Uh oh Lee.......can't comment for how sales does on England. Actually can't comment, for what goes on in other areas of the US. It all depends on your sales support.

That being said, it is typically of Xerox reps, direct or Agent, to become proficient at Color Production and stay in that type of assignment...and take care of their client over a long term

 

[Roagie183]

This is my first post on this site, and I believe it to be relative for anyone who is deciding between KM or Xerox. I began my copier career 4.5 years ago with KM, and I bought into all the Corporate Kool-aid that KM force feeds its reps. If you asked me a year ago who was better on the production end, I would say KM..and I even said on several occasions that KM had the largest portfolio in the digital press market( that is if you include the Oce & Kodak Product that it also sells, we even sold Xerox product when clients needs out grew KM's brand). I made the jump to Xerox about 6 months, and for the first 3 months, I couldn't believe the difference in the 2 companies. To put it simple, KM reacts, Xerox attacks. Xerox is up-front with it's client base, and there are no-hidden charges. On the Fiery issue, that is a KM problem. The c6500 series runs better with a Creo RIP, than Fiery. You will not have any issue with EFI on any Xerox product. The other thing that I have noticed is that across the board, all Xerox 700 color output is constant from client to client. KM product was iffy. If I were to go into business today, I would go to KM website and click on Production Equipment, and then I would open another browser and go to Xerox website, and click on Production. KM only has 5 OEM Production Machines(c5501,c6501,c65hc, 1051, & 1200)....well Xerox has roughly 20 different machines to chose from. So, if you are looking for a car...do you start at the Kia dealership, or go straight to Toyota lot?

 

[UberTech]

If you asked me a year ago who was better on the production end, I would say KM..and I even said on several occasions that KM had the largest portfolio in the digital press market

So your a blatant liar, jumped ship to spread more blatant lies. You suffer from first postitus. The Vendor on Vendor smack down has been done to death and I think you'll find everyone is tired of it no matter how much you think you might know.

Please mature quickly and offer constructive unbiased information on your 'current' vendor.

 

[GregNac19]

So your a blatant liar, jumped ship to spread more blatant lies. You suffer from first postitus. The Vendor on Vendor smack down has been done to death and I think you'll find everyone is tired of it no matter how much you think you might know.

Please mature quickly and offer constructive unbiased information on your 'current' vendor.

It is funny how you can't talk bad about KM. You must be a liar. I have never worked for KM. So Ubertech, is any of what he said true about the Fiery?

 

[rjb]

260/6501

260/6501

We have a 250 and a 6501 and the color is comparable to some degree but we have the creo and can set the color to match just about anything. The major difference is the price of the machines, click charges, monthly service charge and the KM back up on coated text capability is great.

 

[aqa-man]

km6501

km6501

the Oce equivalent is the 665 (its a badged konica, exact same);
You can also buy direct from Konica, you get to have support from the top production Print guys - excellent indeed, far more knowledgable than any dealer engineers.
We have the 6501 full kit with Creo; the Fiery is less tricky to learn.
You can also buy the kit from almost anywhere, but the support is where is really at, if you are really in the business.

 

[rjb]

km6501

km6501

I agree.... good support is priceless.

 

[UberTech]

It is funny how you can't talk bad about KM. You must be a liar. I have never worked for KM. So Ubertech, is any of what he said true about the Fiery?

I have no idea what the 'Fiery' issue is to be honest. Logic would say that of the 'the problem' is on the fiery and not the creo then it can't be a KM problem....can it? IMHO Creo have been a bit more pro-active when it comes to get things fixed although Fiery as of late have really raised there game.

He openly stated he lied while at KM. I think it's best for everyone that no one bashs other compeditors as it just leaves a bad taste in the mouths of our customers.

 

[GregNac19]

I have no idea what the 'Fiery' issue is to be honest. Logic would say that of the 'the problem' is on the fiery and not the creo then it can't be a KM problem....can it? IMHO Creo have been a bit more pro-active when it comes to get things fixed although Fiery as of late have really raised there game.

He openly stated he lied while at KM. I think it's best for everyone that no one bashs other compeditors as it just leaves a bad taste in the mouths of our customers.

I agree. Everyone wants to blame the equipment and never Fiery. I would have to say that both must be a fault some. I know updates happen all the time but I will say maybe Konica Minolta needs to pay Fiery a little more money. I usually don't have fiery problems with our machines that aren't quickly resolved. Keep in mind our service is linked with a database that every technician can access and find answers to solutions to almost all problems because someone else has already dealt with the situation. Most cases.

By the way this forum says Konica is spelled wrong. You should talk to someone about this.

 

[GusG]

By the way this forum says Konica is spelled wrong. You should talk to someone about this.

When we only had Konica Bizhubs we had a guy tending them and my staff gave him the nickname "Konica". He wasn't very interested in his job and began making some silly mistakes so he was renamed "Comica".

 

[LugNut]

Great thread

Great thread

I am close to signing a deal with the local small town dealer for an X - DC260 with creo, oversized HiCap feeder, and professional or light prod. finisher. You guys have shed some good light on many issues but there isn't much that addresses the 260 question of this forum. You guys mostly discussed the 700 which does not seem worth the $ leap for us right now. I have not seriously considered a KM 6500, is the price comparable for a KM with similar features and what would be the pros and cons of the 260 vs 6500. We are a small print shop with a Canon IRC-3200 running only 7000 color per month atm, but we hope to quickly double and then triple that volume with our next purchase.
PS can anyone help me decide about the light production finisher and does the decurler feature help significantly to justify the additional cost?

 

[Craig]

Decurler's are da bomb! It's so much easier finishing a flat sheet than one that us U shaped. Whatever decision you go with, just make sure it's something you can grow with!