Looking for Input - Stochastic Printing

DavidMa

Well-known member
Hello all,
I have been asked to see if I can find any published materials on the benefits and drawbacks of printing Stochastic.
We do it here, and have been for some time (not for all jobs, but a few).
We have a client looking for some more info to help make a decision to either go all stochastic or remain with standard screening.

thanks in advance for your help,
David
 
I have been asked to see if I can find any published materials on the benefits and drawbacks of printing Stochastic.

There's plenty of published information on the benefits and drawbacks of printing stochastic. But you do have to be careful as there is a great deal of misinformation and faulty research (e.g. the GATF study on gamuts difference published in 2003 which was recanted the following year).
Two good sources are a TAGA report - see attached, and the PIRA study (if it's still available) Pira Portal isbn 1-85802-126-x "stochastic screening" by Kelvin Tritton.
Briefly - for sheetfed:
Benefits:
• photographic appearance even under a loupe - i.e. higher fidelity to the original art
• larger gamut in 1 and 2 color screen tint builds
• no screen angle moiré
• no subject moiré
• color more stable as SIDs naturally vary on press - i.e. more consistent presswork
• tones more stable as SIDs naturally vary on press - i.e. more consistent presswork
• no rosettes - i.e. more consistent color and tones in presswork when slight misregistration occurs
• uses less ink - i.e. greener solution
• complements inkjet proofing - no screen-caused surprises on press.
• screen tints dry faster - i.e. easier to align presswork to proof (less need to visually account for dry-back)

Issues:
• requires process control in printshop
• requires consistency/integrity in plate imaging
• requires commitment by printshop (i.e. if it's only used once in a while the printer is less likely to reliably print stochastic)

Personally speaking, if you are able to print stochastic - I don't understand why you wouldn't.

That being said, if you use very high AM lpi screening, then you will also get many of the same benefits. The benefits come from the size of the dots - rather than how they are organized. However, if you are a quality leading print shop - well, there's nothing more beautiful, IMHO, than 10 micron FM. It looks continuous tone, even under a loupe and provides the quality that "high-end" customers deserve in their printed work.

best, gordon p

my print blog here: Quality In Print current topic: Pressman's hat
 

Attachments

  • TAGA Litho_Impact_Microdot2003.pdf
    513.1 KB · Views: 213
Last edited:
There's plenty of published information on the benefits and drawbacks of printing stochastic. But you do have to be careful as there is a great deal of misinformation and faulty research (e.g. the GATF study on gamuts difference published in 2003 which was recanted the following year).
Two good sources are a TAGA report - see attached, and the PIRA study (if it's still available) Pira Portal isbn 1-85802-126-x "stochastic screening" by Kelvin Tritton.
Briefly - for sheetfed:
Benefits:
• photographic appearance even under a loupe - i.e. higher fidelity to the original art
• larger gamut in 1 and 2 color screen tint builds
• no screen angle moiré
• no subject moiré
• color more stable as SIDs naturally vary on press - i.e. more consistent presswork
• tones more stable as SIDs naturally vary on press - i.e. more consistent presswork
• no rosettes - i.e. more consistent color and tones in presswork when slight misregistration occurs
• uses less ink - i.e. greener solution
• complements inkjet proofing - no screen-caused surprises on press.
• screen tints dry faster - i.e. easier to align presswork to proof (less need to visually account for dry-back)

Issues:
• requires process control in printshop
• requires consistency/integrity in plate imaging
• requires commitment by printshop (i.e. if it's only used once in a while the printer is less likely to reliably print stochastic)

Personally speaking, if you are able to print stochastic - I don't understand why you wouldn't.

That being said, if you use very high AM lpi screening, then you will also get many of the same benefits. The benefits come from the size of the dots - rather than how they are organized. However, if you are a quality leading print shop - well, there's nothing more beautiful, IMHO, than 10 micron FM. It looks continuous tone, even under a loupe and provides the quality that "high-end" customers deserve in their printed work.

best, gordon p

my print blog here: Quality In Print current topic: Pressman's hat

perfect response!
 
Stochastic Screening

Stochastic Screening

There is a booklet on screening put out by an industry group called BRIDG'S which is
available at Welcome! | PrintTools and was written by Gordo.
The book looks at all kinds of screening, including stochastic, and should help in understanding
this subject.
 
David,

Can you guys do Hybrid, AM/FM on the same job/plate? Being that they both have their advantages, you could offer your customer the best of both worlds. Just a thought.....

Vee
 
Can you guys do Hybrid, AM/FM on the same job/plate? Being that they both have their advantages, you could offer your customer the best of both worlds. Just a thought.....

Lithographically, it is the size of the dots that is important – rather than how they are organized.

If you mix screens - say 175 lpi AM/XM with 20 micron FM (equivalent to about 400 lpi) the difference in relative dot sizes is significant. The result is that the ink/water requirements will be different, which means that they should not be mixed inline on the press form.

If you mix screens - say 350 lpi AM/XM with 20 micron FM (equivalent to about 400 lpi) the difference in relative dot sizes is not significant. The result is that the ink/water requirements will be similar, which means that they can be mixed inline on the press form. But at that point there'd be no value, or benefit, in using the AM/XM screen.
For metal plate offset, the "best of both worlds" already exists with hybrid FM screens (a.k.a. second order FM)

best, gordon p
my print blog here: Quality In Print current topic: "To err is human"
Want to understand AM/Hybrid AM/XM screening better? Go here: Quality In Print: Hybrid AM Screening/XM Screening
 
Last edited:
Yes, as I stated in my orig post, it's not for us, it's info for a client that wants to either do stochastic or conventional in all of their print media. That's why I was asking for "published" material, so we could send the info to them.
We can print either way, don't matter to us.
We run stochastic, conventional, and mixed variable screening every day.
(not all on the same job, mind you. haha)

gotta love printing!
;)
 
If you have a HDM Prinect install with MetaDimension 6.5 or above, the stochastic screening starter was included for free. It is intended just to let users give it a test-drive really but I suggest trying it out to anyone that has any interest. I ran some tests on it and was quite impressed with it. We have had customers request stochastic before and I have attempted to push a move to sstochastic but met way too much resistance.

As janezl posted.. the HDM book on Screening Technology is pretty awesome. The PDF doesn't do it justice and if you can afford it, buy the printed version which has real sample of different screening technologies and settings bound into the book. Haven't tried but twisting the arm of your HDM rep. might even land you a free copy.
 
If you have a HDM Prinect install with MetaDimension 6.5 or above, the stochastic screening starter was included for free. It is intended just to let users give it a test-drive really but I suggest trying it out to anyone that has any interest. I ran some tests on it and was quite impressed with it. We have had customers request stochastic before and I have attempted to push a move to sstochastic but met way too much resistance.

As janezl posted.. the HDM book on Screening Technology is pretty awesome. The PDF doesn't do it justice and if you can afford it, buy the printed version which has real sample of different screening technologies and settings bound into the book. Haven't tried but twisting the arm of your HDM rep. might even land you a free copy.

Just a quick note... It seems MetaDimension 7 doesn't include sctochastic starter anymore. Just regular screening (HQS, IS and RT). It's a shame because it gave some very interesting results...:(
 
david gday as a printer my experiences have been negative especially trying to print duotone covers 4up could never get all 4 to look the same solved every time by dumping stochastic
 
Just a quick note... It seems MetaDimension 7 doesn't include sctochastic starter anymore. Just regular screening (HQS, IS and RT). It's a shame because it gave some very interesting results...:(

Just quoting myself to say MetaDimension 7.5.1 includes once again Stochastic Starter. :)
 
Stochastic Screening Ipex 1993

Stochastic Screening Ipex 1993

Hello fellow Lithographers,


I enclose some PDFs

" From knowledge to competence is a great step ----- from ignorance to competence an even greater one "


Regards, Alois
 

Attachments

  • Stochastic 1993 # 1287.pdf
    1.6 MB · Views: 259
  • Stochastic Ipex 1993 # 2288.pdf
    2 MB · Views: 217
  • Stochastic Ipex 1993 # 3289.pdf
    2.2 MB · Views: 227
  • Stochastic Ipex 1993 # 4290.pdf
    2.2 MB · Views: 216
A very well written article on FM/Stochastic, especially considering when it was written.

gordon p
 
Assistance Please

Assistance Please

Hi There, I'm new to the Forum so hello to everybody!! Could somebody answer a question that I'm sure will be simple to all in this forum.
My Boss - who has been in print managment for 25 years in convinced there is a difference between FM Screen and Stochastic printing.

If there is, then I can't find it. Could one of you guys set me straight!

Thanks in advance.
 

PressWise

A 30-day Fix for Managed Chaos

As any print professional knows, printing can be managed chaos. Software that solves multiple problems and provides measurable and monetizable value has a direct impact on the bottom-line.

“We reduced order entry costs by about 40%.” Significant savings in a shop that turns about 500 jobs a month.


Learn how…….

   
Back
Top