Al Ferrari
Well-known member
"there is something like blanket."
Where did you see that?
Al
Where did you see that?
Al
Nanographic Printing Technology from Benny Landa
- Thread starter prwhite
- Start date
tmiller_iluvprinting
Well-known member
From what I have read I think you can assume that the delivery will be ink direct to substrate. The process is touted as being water based, energy and eco-friendly. No pre-treatment or coating, and no post-drying. The images the press prints are 500 nanometers thick, one-half the thickness of offset images. B3, B2, B1 sheetfed presses that can print up to 8 colors at 600dpi or 1200dpi. The presses can operate up to 11,000 sheets/hour. I wish I could go!
Best regards,
Todd
Best regards,
Todd
Al Ferrari
Well-known member
"The presses can operate up to 11,000 sheets/hour"
Where did you read that?
Al
Where did you read that?
Al
Cornishpastythighs
Well-known member
D
Deleted member 16349
Guest
Al, it is in the link on the original post of this thread.
D
Deleted member 16349
Guest
From the new article in Printweek:
Landa to partner with Manroland Sheetfed | printweek.com | Latest Print Industry News, Jobs, Features, Product Reviews, Used Printing and Packaging Machinery
Someone from manroland has said,:
"Our goal will be to deliver to our customers new digital printing solutions by converting their existing offset presses to Nanography,"
That's an interesting comment. It implies that the modification can not be too extensive.
tmiller_iluvprinting
Well-known member
I would NEVER read that into any statement from a press company.
Converting may be cheaper than buying all new iron, or the savings may be so great that they feel you almost have to buy into the technology.
Heidelberg says the 105xl pays for itself with savings, tell that to the shop making payments!
Until I can see what it is, analyze how it works and what it really costs, I can/would not make any statement like that.
Just my .02 cents.
chevalier
Well-known member
You could replace "Heidelberg" and "105XL" with any vendor and their product in any industry. [vendor] sells you [product] and you are expected to know how to use it to produce product/service and generate a profit. If the equipment has little or no ROI then no one will buy it other than poor decision makers.
You can't blame the manufacturer of the equipment for a dumb business decision you made.
The point I was making was not about Heidelberg or any one else in particular in the industry for that matter, but rather the use use of the phrase "can not be too extensive".
How many times do you hear the words Plug and Play?
I am tired of the removal of the craft from out jobs, it is not easy to be a profitable printer these days and just replacing hardware to be the first or best is not always the answer. That is why I said I would analyze on my own.
Sorry if I picked a preferred vendor of yours to run as the example, that is a great press, IF you can afford it.
How many times do you hear the words Plug and Play?
I am tired of the removal of the craft from out jobs, it is not easy to be a profitable printer these days and just replacing hardware to be the first or best is not always the answer. That is why I said I would analyze on my own.
Sorry if I picked a preferred vendor of yours to run as the example, that is a great press, IF you can afford it.
chevalier
Well-known member
I don't play the brand loyalty game. It had nothing to do with Heidelberg. It's hard to be profitable in printing mainly due to the barriers of high capital equipment costs ("unaffordable" equipment), an overly competitive market (too many printers), the elimination of trade barriers, the lack of uniform regulatory codes and the impacts of the internet/computer technology. These also apply to many other industries.
These are the forces of economics that we are all subject to. A house used to built by an entire team of specialist craftsmen over weeks/months. Market forces drove the costs of these specialization out and now an entire home can be purchased off the shelf in parts and assembled in a just a few days. Is the quality somewhat reduced? Absolutely. Are people willing to pay 3x - 4x the cost for a home for the craftsmanship? Absolutely not, unless they are obscenely wealthy.
So you balance the equation in your print shop. Is it more capital efficient to buy new equipment or pay a skilled legacy operator? You do the math, make an educated decision and hopefully get to keep your lifestyle. It has little to do with feelings and craftsmanship - printing is a business driven by profit motive.
If you really - reallly - really want to focus on craftsmanship there is a subset of society that has dedicated their entire lifestyle to the idea. They're called the Amish and I grew up around them. I always had a certain romantic affinity about the Amish lifestyle and their level of craftsmanship. However, the older I got and the more education I received the more I realized that these people just refuse to advance with technology. What you appear to be suggesting is that we do the same but circa 1995 technology instead of circa 1895 technology. I understand and appreciate your unease but you must either stay on the train or get off and live on the farm.
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There comes a point of diminshed return.
It is a business and has to be run as such, however is your train of thought is that anyone off the street can be hired to run and prduce a high quality 4/4 brochure with little or no understanding of the delicate balance of ink and water... just push the buttons and print because of all of the automation available to us?
It is a craft and we do move forward everyday, I learn when I error in my job and I grow. But I also realize that people and skill are a mainstay of making money.
I have different levels of people making different amounts running equipment with various levels of training. It never fails the Junior pressman on the 2 station press thinks he should make more than the pressman running the 8 color because he has less automation than the 8 color press has - it is more than just uploading a preset to the fountain and running.
I am not uneased by technology, I have digital inkjet presses, UV offset webs, Digital toner presses and conventional web presses to my avail, I do think that any new technology has to prove itself in a payback of 2-3 years now and not the 5-10 it used to be, and for that reason I proceed with caution and rely on skills I have attained over the last several decades to continue to be a asset and not another closed door.
And by the way, my home was bulit by hand, I do live on a farm and I prefer it that way.
It is a business and has to be run as such, however is your train of thought is that anyone off the street can be hired to run and prduce a high quality 4/4 brochure with little or no understanding of the delicate balance of ink and water... just push the buttons and print because of all of the automation available to us?
It is a craft and we do move forward everyday, I learn when I error in my job and I grow. But I also realize that people and skill are a mainstay of making money.
I have different levels of people making different amounts running equipment with various levels of training. It never fails the Junior pressman on the 2 station press thinks he should make more than the pressman running the 8 color because he has less automation than the 8 color press has - it is more than just uploading a preset to the fountain and running.
I am not uneased by technology, I have digital inkjet presses, UV offset webs, Digital toner presses and conventional web presses to my avail, I do think that any new technology has to prove itself in a payback of 2-3 years now and not the 5-10 it used to be, and for that reason I proceed with caution and rely on skills I have attained over the last several decades to continue to be a asset and not another closed door.
And by the way, my home was bulit by hand, I do live on a farm and I prefer it that way.
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chevalier
Well-known member
I think we're having different disagreements from different perspectives. I completely agree that retrofitting an existing offset press and expecting an untrained schmuck off the street to run it is insane. I'm excited about Landa's technology but technology
for technology's sake is dumb.
for technology's sake is dumb.
D
Deleted member 16349
Guest
An interesting comment from Benny Landa:
Landa said: "In the foreseeable future we will not see a digital printing technology capable of replacing offset for run lengths of tens or hundreds or thousands, but the market demands ever-shorter run lengths as well as the versatility of digital. That’s where Landa Nanographic Printing comes in."
It seems that in his view, conventional offset is still and will be for some time, more competitive for longer runs. I am glad to see such a comment.
I would think that if the Landa technology is totally revolutionary, it would replace offset even for long runs. Does this mean that if conventional offset gets a redesign, it might be more competitive at the shorter runs where Landa's technology is aimed?
Tomorrow is the big day for Landa's press conference at Drupa. I think I will go to sleep early this evening so tomorrow will come quicker. Maybe 6pm.
D
Deleted member 16349
Guest
I don't know any more than you do just now.
I am amazed at how many press manufacturers are jumping on. I sense there is some panicking going on at their head offices. Unfortunately, this shows the lack of real innovation that has been happening in the press manufacturing field for some time. It takes outside groups to push innovation on the old guard.
If all press manufactures got the same technology, then we are back in the same place where one group of press manufacturers will not have a competitive advantage over the others. Interesting.
D
Deleted member 16349
Guest
I agree. Potentially it could kill some digital press products. We don't have much info yet on Landa's technology but my view has always been that even a redesigned offset process could kill digital presses. One does not have to kill them by having them all replaced with a new Landa or offset technology. All that is needed is that the growth of buying digital presses slows to a point where the manufacturers can not recoup their development investments.
Culturally it will be easier for the digital press suppliers to turn their backs on the printing industry and give up. Offset press manufactures are much less likely to do that. One reason is they don't know what else to do.
Very low runs could be done with small office type digital printers. Where would digital presses fit if variable printing is not used much.
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