Nanographic Printing Technology from Benny Landa

[Deleted member 16349]

"What are chemical bonds?"

PLEASE do not ask me further about this. I have left that former life behind, and wish I had not even mentioned it in that earlier post.

Going forward with graphic arts...

Al

Sorry I gave you any "static".

 

[Green Printer]

link for coated nano ink

INKJET PRINTER INKS PRODUCER

 

[Green Printer]

I understand the claim is that it is not a heat fuse method but just pressed onto the substrate. The nano ink is claimed to have high adhesion to materials without heat or substrate surface treatment. Don't know if this is totally true or dependable but that seems to be Landa's claim.

I am curious to see how this affects your concerns about deinking.

I am also curious as to whether the final printed ink is water soluble and will run when wet? Could someone spit on a print sample to find out?

If the applied nanoink can become water soluable I would guess that deinking would be very difficult. It it remains non-water soluable then it has a chance of being deinked.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

If the applied nanoink can become water soluable I would guess that deinking would be very difficult. It it remains non-water soluable then it has a chance of being deinked.

From one of your links it talked about particle size as also being a factor. If I remember correctly, small was poor and large was poor and UV was poor. I guess we just have to wait and see how the deinking works with nanoink. I was interested to see some kind of comment about this on Landa's site and in any articles but I found no mention about it. Curious.

 

[gordo]

[snip]Could someone spit on a print sample [snip]?

I think that a few people from Kodak probably will. ;-)

best, gordo

 

[chevalier]

I think that a few people from Kodak probably will. ;-)

best, gordo

I'm sure the folks at Fujifilm wouldn't mind to either.

 

[Al Ferrari]

"Water extration before application then heat fuse it to the sheet."

Landa explicitly states ("I'm more energised and excited than ever": an interview with Benny Landa) that there is no heat involved in the fussing to substrate step.

You have posted some very useful links to pigment sources, but please be more careful about your comments on the Landa process.

Al

 

[maxon]

Ink drying on that blanket should produce a noticeable smell so I'm going to take my trained nose there tomorrow morning. Carboxymethyl cellulose based colloidal emulsion ? It is food grade.

 

[tmiller_iluvprinting]

Some thoughts.
The nano inks are said to have higher densities than conventional offset and a larger gamut. Does that cause some problems with printers trying to print to existing standards? I am not a fan of the existing restrictive standard approach to printing but those in the printing industry that want to print to a standard might have concerns.

As long as the color gamut of the standard can be reproduced by Nanotechnology there shouldn't be an issue.
Regards,
Todd

 

[Deleted member 16349]

As long as the color gamut of the standard can be reproduced by Nanotechnology there shouldn't be an issue.
Regards,
Todd

I may have worded my comment incorrectly. Yes if they print to the standard that should be OK.

What I think might happen is that some will print outside the standard because of some Wow factor and then it would be a problem for people expecting to have something printed within a standard. I may not have stated this correctly either.

I see a potential issue with people buy into a technology that can do more but then being expected to just run it within limited boundaries.

Maybe this is not an issue at all.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

I think that a few people from Kodak probably will. ;-)

best, gordo

Gordon. The spit to test the ink solubility not as a competitors negative gesture.

 

[gordo]

Gordon. The spit to test the ink solubility not as a competitors negative gesture.

Oh yes of course - absolutely. LOL!

If Landa can work out the bugs, and the price is within reason, this could be quite the revolution in printing. Especially since it can be retrofitted to existing presses (perhaps not all).
The ability for a printer to implement digital printing without the cost and space usage of a new stand alone device by "simply" upgrading their existing presses will be very attractive. Also, since the Landa unit appears to attach to the extended delivery section of a conventional offset press, it suggests that the nano printing could be done in concert with offset. E.g. the press might print specialty inks like metallics ahead of the nano printing. Or perhaps print static imagery while the nano does the variable - all in line (assuming that nano inks are more expensive than offset).

best, gordo

 

[Al Ferrari]

For tandem printing to work, a drying unit would be needed before the Landa unit so that the conventionally printed ink on the paper does not foul up the special Landa blanket belt.

Al

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Oh yes of course - absolutely. LOL!

If Landa can work out the bugs, and the price is within reason, this could be quite the revolution in printing. Especially since it can be retrofitted to existing presses (perhaps not all).
The ability for a printer to implement digital printing without the cost and space usage of a new stand alone device by "simply" upgrading their existing presses will be very attractive. Also, since the Landa unit appears to attach to the extended delivery section of a conventional offset press, it suggests that the nano printing could be done in concert with offset. E.g. the press might print specialty inks like metallics ahead of the nano printing. Or perhaps print static imagery while the nano does the variable - all in line (assuming that nano inks are more expensive than offset).

best, gordo

Gordon, I like the Landa technology and the marketing plan. There is beauty in it.

Of course, lots of really great concepts do not always become successful for a variety of reasons that were not seen in the early stages. Even so, it is a great pleasure to see a really well thought out concept instead of the superficial ones we normally see.

There are a lot of issues that only a lot of testing will determine. The more complicated the new concepts are, the more potential for bugs, which Landa has stated are there now and he needs time to get at them. I appreciate his frankness in this.

Also there is action from other sources with other potential printing options. That is also good to see.

There are a couple of things I like about this situation, which I would say is a bit new to the printing industry.

One is the fact that higher level engineers, chemists and physicists, who are not printing industry people, are doing the advancements. It may be a time now when people in the industry are starting to understand that experience does not help advance the industry but educated people with high levels of science can.

I think this situation is good for me, since there is still a need for the offset process to improve and maybe finally, press manufactures will be more open to my theoretical based practical solutions to process problems. (shameless plug)

I also think that at some point, prepress technologies will also get a rethinking by those higher level engineers and physicists and hopefully this will result in logical and practical methods to deal with colour and get it out of the hands of technologists who don't seem to be able to see the whole problem.

This could very well be a turning point in the industry. Only time will tell, but I suspect in the future it is going to marginalize the existing "keepers of the knowledge" at places such as graphic arts institutions, trade associations, technical associations, etc. because these groups do not have a good record of solving problems. They follow but do not lead.

I am actually feeling quite positive now. Can you believe that?

Landa's thinking has given a good shock to a almost dead body. (the industry, not mine)

 

[Green Printer]

"Water extration before application then heat fuse it to the sheet."

Landa explicitly states ("I'm more energised and excited than ever": an interview with Benny Landa) that there is no heat involved in the fussing to substrate step.

You have posted some very useful links to pigment sources, but please be more careful about your comments on the Landa process.

Al

Thank you AL I stand corrected.

I was basing my statement on the S7 cutaway Commercial - Landa. I was thinking that there would be some latent heat in the transfer blanket when the impression to the substrate is made.

 

[gordo]

Gordon, I like the Landa technology and the marketing plan. There is beauty in it.

Me too.

One is the fact that higher level engineers, chemists and physicists, who are not printing industry people, are doing the advancements. It may be a time now when people in the industry are starting to understand that experience does not help advance the industry but educated people with high levels of science can.

Yes, but the way Landa describes it, this was a case of serendipity rather than hard-nosed problem solving. Landa recognized an opportunity in research on a different problem because of his background in printing.

I am actually feeling quite positive now. Can you believe that?

Yeah, that's good. I hope that someone on this forum that's attending drupa reports back with their impressions of the technology.

It might be sufficient incentive to go to GraphExpo if Landa will be showing it there.

best, gordo

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Yes, but the way Landa describes it, this was a case of serendipity rather than hard-nosed problem solving. Landa recognized an opportunity in research on a different problem because of his background in printing.

Landa's background in printing? Oh yeah, he innovated it back then. He has a background in innovation and it just happened to be in printing at the time. I think his mind innovates in any field he thinks about.

We are lucky he saw a relationship that fit with some of his previous work with Indigo. Serendipity is much more common than you would think. It is almost required for innovation.

One might be thinking about a problem that needs to be solved or just thinking about things in general and then some idea of a relationship pops into your head. It can be from something you read or something someone said or some phenomena you observed, but in a flash, you see a relationship that no one else has. It is obvious once you start to think about it more but others can not see it until you tell them.

Engineering problem solving does not create innovation in my view. You first need to see some special new relationship and then use engineering problem solving to take advantage of it. Serendipity is the life blood of innovation and when it happens, you need to be open to what is being said.

Landa is being modest by saying it was a case of serendipity. It was his special ability to see something and make a connection. And he made the connection back to his other innovative work, which happened to be in printing.

I think his main reason to develop his new printing process is not for the good of the printing industry per se but to generate funds for his other activities in research for alternate energy and helping supporting young talented people get a high level education which they could not normally afford.

He may be remembered for those activities much more than his contributions to printing. That seems to be where he has his heart.

 

[Green Printer]

Adhesion and stiction very educational.

http://www.micronano.ethz.ch/education/Lecture_1_Paper_JVST_Adhesion_Stiction_BB_03.pdf

 

[padrao]

Heidelberg and Landa Enter Global Strategic Partnership to Expand Digital Offerings

Heidelberg and Landa Enter Global Strategic Partnership to Expand Digital Offerings

Heidelberger Druckmaschinen AG (Heidelberg), Germany, and Landa Corporation of Rehovot, Israel, today announced a global strategic partnership to collaborate on the development of Nanographic Printingâ„¢ Presses to expand digital offerings for mainstream printing, including short-to-medium runs, variable data and quick turnaround printing. Heidelberg intends to develop, manufacture, sell and service new generation of digital printing presses based upon Landa Nanographic Printingâ„¢ technology.

 

[D Ink Man]

How long will it be before this technology is in a real productive mode?

Will it be just a few installations or is it anticipated to catch on like wild fire?

Will traditional lithography become obsolte like ancient drawings on the inside of a cave?

Just seeking out the practical application of this new Nano in our day and age.

Thanks,
D