PDF and Open Type Fonts

[Tony Pratt]

What font types are problematic in today's workflows?

 

[mattbeals]

What font types are problematic in today's workflows?

The ones not embedded. In my experience, your mileage may vary, font problems have mostly gone away except when fonts are not embedded or someone post PDF tries to embed a font using the incorrect version.

 

[Glenn McDowall]

Last week Prinergy refused to refine the Roboto family of fonts, security/permissions prevented outlining these fonts in the pdf. Eventually had to go back to InDesign and outline there.

Roboto turned out to be completely legitimate free fonts, just they are designed for Android (available from Google) not for print/render to high res.

 

[chevalier]

The ones not embedded. In my experience, your mileage may vary, font problems have mostly gone away except when fonts are not embedded or someone post PDF tries to embed a font using the incorrect version.

Embedded fonts with subsetting can be a real pain if someone wants to make a "quick edit". For the uninformed subsetting means the font that is embedded only contains the characters used. For example if you have a the word "they'e" and you didn't use an "r" in that font anywhere else it is borderline impossible to strip an "r" into that word.

Last week Prinergy refused to refine the Roboto family of fonts, security/permissions prevented outlining these fonts in the pdf. Eventually had to go back to InDesign and outline there.

Roboto turned out to be completely legitimate free fonts, just they are designed for Android (available from Google) not for print/render to high res.

I have encountered this. Use of the Google Fonts can be a serious pain too!

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Embedded fonts with subsetting can be a real pain if someone wants to make a "quick edit". For the uninformed subsetting means the font that is embedded only contains the characters used. For example if you have a the word "they'e" and you didn't use an "r" in that font anywhere else it is borderline impossible to strip an "r" into that word.

I have encountered this. Use of the Google Fonts can be a serious pain too!

Quite frankly, Acrobat certainly doesn't allow you to edit text in a PDF file unless you have actually installed the font on your system, regardless of whether the font is fully-embedded or subset-embedded. Thus, fully embedding a font does not buy you anything other than perhaps a bloated PDF file.

- Dov

 

[tobiv]

not if you are using pitstop...

 

[csawatzki]

Never heard of anything like this...

 

[chevalier]

Quite frankly, Acrobat certainly doesn't allow you to edit text in a PDF file unless you have actually installed the font on your system, regardless of whether the font is fully-embedded or subset-embedded. Thus, fully embedding a font does not buy you anything other than perhaps a bloated PDF file.

- Dov

Dov,
I see that tobiv has already clarified (quoted below). I don't know anyone in a serious prepress department with PDF workflow who is not a heavy Pitstop Pro user. It was a gift from heaven when I first acquired it. In my humble opinion the feature set of Pitstop Pro should really just be built-in via a "prepress edition" or "printer's edition" of Acrobat.

not if you are using pitstop...

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Dov,
I see that tobiv has already clarified (quoted below). I don't know anyone in a serious prepress department with PDF workflow who is not a heavy Pitstop Pro user. It was a gift from heaven when I first acquired it. In my humble opinion the feature set of Pitstop Pro should really just be built-in via a "prepress edition" or "printer's edition" of Acrobat.

There is no question that PitStop does offer some exceptional tools. That having been said, be aware that as I understand it, PitStop only allows editing with an embedded font if that font has at least editable embedding privileges, which many if most fonts don't (they have only preview and print embedding privileges). Furthermore, “fully embedding” a font in most instances only embeds the glyphs and some of the font metrics. Advanced OpenType layout tables are not typically embedded. As such, any editing using such a font loses much of the functionality that one would have had going back to the original layout program.

- Dov

 

[mattbeals]

There is no question that PitStop does offer some exceptional tools. That having been said, be aware that as I understand it, PitStop only allows editing with an embedded font if that font has at least editable embedding privileges, which many if most fonts don't (they have only preview and print embedding privileges). Furthermore, “fully embedding” a font in most instances only embeds the glyphs and some of the font metrics. Advanced OpenType layout tables are not typically embedded. As such, any editing using such a font loses much of the functionality that one would have had going back to the original layout program.

- Dov

What he said.

And, I know I'll catch hell for this, but you really shouldn't be editing text in a PDF. Yes, you can do it. Yes, sometimes there are no other choices. But you really shouldn't be for a multitude of reasons.

Nothing like doing it twice...

 

[chevalier]

While I agree with both of you on a technical and conceptual level ... take a walk in someone's shoes working in the trenches preparing files some day...

 

[mattbeals]

While I agree with both of you on a technical and conceptual level ... take a walk in someone's shoes working in the trenches preparing files some day...

I have, and do. Both as a content creator and a content receiver.

 

[abc]

Sits back, pours beer, reads thread, smiles, drinks beer!

 

[mattbeals]

Got any scotch there ABC? I could use one...

 

[Glenn McDowall]

abc once you've finished your delicious belgian beer, do you have any input on Google fonts being used in projects destined for print?

 

[johnny_jay]

Kodak has a bulletin out about Roboto

https://services.kodak.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/67124/kw/roboto - Links to partner place

 

[maas]

What font types are problematic in today's workflows?

The ones you "find for free" on the internet, a font is software with an end user licence which may have restrictions including in its PS data, if you want to avoid fonts issues make sure you purchase these from a legitimate source

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Not all “free” fonts are bad - actually, probably a very small minority of them. And there have been commercial fonts for beaucoup shekels that have had to go back for regrooving also!

 

[Dov Isaacs]

Kodak has a bulletin out about Roboto

https://services.kodak.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/67124/kw/roboto - Links to partner place

Unfortunately, that URL requires membership and an account to view the contents. Can you please give us the gist of what Kodak is warning about? Thanks!

- Dov

 

[macVato]

Any one remember Blue Highway and Freehand. I miss those days.