Poll: Prepress preference; RGB vs. CMYK

[dgraves]

Please list which platform your prepress department prefers.

 

[toronar]

Personally I prefer profiled RGB for images and CMYK for vector art/text.

Especially as it seems that most of our clients are unable to understand colormanagement or how to prepare and edit CMYK images correctly. TAC in excess of 360% is quite the norm in most data we get.
Converting this to a lower TAC is sometimes risky for consistency of color. If we can convert RGB to CMYK using the right profiles, TAC never is a problem and the pictures look good.

If a client is understanding and actually knows what he is doing, I prefer CMYK all the way. But this kind of client seems to die out, sadly.

Another advantage to RGB images is that I can repurpose for a different paper or printing process with ease and good quality.

 

[Mike Bishop]

Cmyk

Cmyk

If a customer supplies an image or vector file in RGB, then they have seen that image on their screen or printed on a laser, etc; so when that same file is converted and printed as CMYK it's color may shift markedly. Now the image "doesn't look like it does on my screen", or "like the proofs we made", according to the customer. If the job is to print as CMYK why begin the design and production process with RGB files?

 

[toronar]

If a customer supplies an image or vector file in RGB, then they have seen that image on their screen or printed on a laser, etc; so when that same file is converted and printed as CMYK it's color may shift markedly. Now the image "doesn't look like it does on my screen", or "like the proofs we made", according to the customer. If the job is to print as CMYK why begin the design and production process with RGB files?

You answered your own question
If the customer wants the colors to look like the ones he has seen on his (uncalibrated) equipment, you are out of luck if the customer is hellbent to get what he wants. I always try to explain to my customers that printing is very different from device to device etc.

You are not going to get any better results when working with CMYK instead, but you will be locked to print-conditions that match the profile used to convert RGB to CMYK. Vector art is another beast ... it depends on the file in question. If it is more like a picture, I keep it in RGB. More like a pie-chart or logo, I convert to CMYK early and fine-tune the values.

If I show the customer his job, I always export a PDF (converted to CMYK) or send him proofs (again CMYK). If the customer is sitting right beside me, or if I need to see what the job will look like printed or where problem areas are (out of gamut), that is what InDesign's/Photoshop's proof preview is for.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I would go with toronar, I think the poll needs maybe to be rephrased/ refined?
RGB for images, CMYK for vector allows last minute switch of paper and reusability of images across media.

Can't vote as is.

And what about grey images? Would you prefer to have them in RGB or CMYK ;p

BTW look at a 100% yellow and 30% magenta on different CMYK processes. (coated, uncoated, newsprint) CMYK workflows work only if you have one assumed output, eg SWOP coated.

 

[dgraves]

I think that CMYK is better, since most designers are not educated enough to understand different profiles. If someone prefers RGB to CMYK, then they would have trouble with multiple profiles being submitted on a daily basis from customer to customer (ie: photoshop, different cameras etc.).
If you had (for instance) 1-customer that you could refine and have them only send you RGB with the same profiles, then this would be preferable. Remember we are in the real world.

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

dgraves, it iis precicely because we are in the real world I would advocate an RGB workflow. Mixed RGB profiles in a document is not a problem, what is a problem is that there is no TAC warning in photoshop, wich means that a designer/photographer etc will tweak a picture after converting to CMYK. We are increasingly working with people with less proffesional experience, in my experience, the documents where photos are kept in RGB are much less problematic. The problem images are those taht come from "proffesionals" maintaining image banks and exporting CMYK, without asking the designer does not know the output intent.
It is so much easier to tagg RGB images, and explain the need to do so, than to train designers and photographers in paper substrates, ink limits, TIC/TAC and GCR vs UCR etc.
We have more problems with old school designers than with freshmen. Old school designers who think it's a matter of adjusting things on press to "match proof".

 

[dgraves]

Lukas,
I disagree, I think mixed RGB profiles are a problem. If a designer is looking at a RGB file on a monitor and receives a proof for print there will be noticeable differences. As far as a TAC warning in photoshop, isn't this what the prepress department is being paid for? Designers should not be required to understand print requirements. Also, this is where color management is applied within the workflow at the print house. Although I prefer CMYK files (precisely for the above mentioned), I also accept RGB files, but have had customers not happy from monitor to proof. There is also an issue when a job is printed at one place then moved to another print provider. This is where a CMYK file is much better than RGB.

 

[typenut]

Prepress Prefernence

Prepress Prefernence

Prefer PDF in CMYK, Fonts outlined.

90 % receive PDF with RGB and CMYK and Fonts not properly embedded.

 

[negromarcelo]

sight I am employed at prepress and we have a flow of work that he handles .pdf and them to go on from the original format to the pdf must take the collections of not having anything in rgb and if elements exist to spend them to cmyk for that later in the moment to print the colors they are completely different. then we decide to warn the clients that they must send all the files in cmyk, since but they will suffer changes of color in the work.

mira yo trabajo en preprensa y tenemos un flujo de trabajo que maneja .pdf y para pasarlos del formato original al pdf debemos tomar los recaudos de no tener nada en rgb y si existen elementos pasarlos a cmyk por que despues en el momento de imprimir los colores son totalmente distintos. entonces decidimos avisar a los clientes que deben enviar todos los archivos en cmyk, pues sino sufriran variaciones de color en el trabajo.

 

[Laurens]

Asked the same question last month

Asked the same question last month

I ran a similar poll on my site last month, instead asking if you are willing to accept RGB or insist on getting CMYK. You can find the results in the archive. I won't spoil the fun by revealing the numbers but it was surprising how many companies still make a point of getting CMYK-data.

 

[prepresscolor]

The trend today seems to be toward RGB. No surprise since most Universities and other schools outputting designers and graphic arts majors haven't a clue of the printing business. The only hitch in this is trying to explain to the customer why the printed piece looks so drab and the RGB image they approved on their monitor looked so vibrant. In the old days, we showed a proof of the CMYK image as it would print on the press, no surprises, no hassles.

 

[GaryFielding]

CMYK all the way

CMYK all the way

We are a web-offset printer which print process colors only. All work should be CMYK on arrival. If not, the work is converted using a prespecified ICC profile. Makes for sometimes unfortunate results.

 

[gordo]

In the early days I promoted RGB workflows because it made sense, however, I found that it encouraged the submission of poor files. Requiring documents in CMYK mode seemed to impress upon the creatives that the imagery needed to be different than what works on screen or on the web. I brought the awareness up about preparing files for print, got them asking questions and learning (a bit) and reduced the number of issues we had receiving art for print.
Sometimes the right way to do something is not the best way to do it.

best, gordon p

my print blog here: Quality In Print

 

[claude72]

There is also an issue when a job is printed at one place then moved to another print provider.

.. and on another paper... that's why RGB pictures are better!

CMYK pictures are a rest of the old time jobs with camera, before DTP and computers, when the only possible working way was CMYK...
Now picture's acquisition systems all work in RGB, screens work in RGB, even your eyes work in RGB... and only the final printing is CMYK... so, the best way is now to keep the pictures in RGB during all the process, and to convert in CMYK only when making the PDF or just before sending in the RIP, or in the RIP...

Because as soon as you convert a picture from RGB to CMYK, you add in this pictures some parameters (TAC, max black %, dot-gain, UCR/GCR...) specific for the printing of this picture on only one defined paper (coated, uncoated, or else...) with only one defined printing system (sheet-fed offset or web-offset or...)

... but when doing the job, most designers do not know who will print and on which paper (coated or uncoated) and when fortunaly they know the printer and the paper, most of them do not know what is a TAC or a dot-gain and are not able to set these parameters correctly... and many are even not able to use the right generic profile matching with the paper and simply keep the defaut coated color profile set by Adobe in Photoshop, even for printing uncoated papers...

In these (bad) conditions, the best way to work correctly is to leave the pictures in RGB and let the printer convert them in CMYK according to his criterias and all his needs!!! simply give us good RGB pictures, well made on calibrated screens, and let us do our job.

I think that CMYK is better, since most designers are not educated enough to understand different profiles.

That's a contradiction !!!

If "most designers are not educated enough to understand different profiles.", so don't let them play with CMYK profiles!!!

Mixing sRGB and Adobe RGB profile is a very little issue compared with having CMYK pictures with 360% TAC, coated dot-gain compensation and SWOP inks profile to be printed on a thin uncoated recycled paper in France!

Designers should not be required to understand print requirements.

Oh, yes, they should... DTP is not Web-design, and a good screen look is not enough: there is a minimum needed printing knowledge to be able to produce good printable files, and all the good designers have some basic understanding of how print works and of what are print requirements...

... only bad designers ignore how printing works...
(and are for example enough uncompetent and stupid to built a 18 pages saddle-stitch booklet )

 

[Laurens]

Designers should not be required to understand print requirements.

Now that this quote was brought to my attention, I cannot resist a few analogies:
- Car designers should not be required to understand what driving is.
- Airplane designers should not be required to understand the basic principles of flight.

Hilarious!

 

[Colorblind]

Designers should not be required to understand print requirements..

Ouch, I totally disagree here. Of course they have to understand print requirements or you'll keep getting 4c Black type, 400TAC CMYK images, 72 dpi images, non bleeding artwork and so on.

 

[dgraves]

Lighten up on me......In my world, we have very knowledgeable designers and not so knowledgeable. I wish I could have all knowledgeable. That is not the case and never will be. For the most part, we take on all types of jobs and customers. Remember CorelDraw, Word and Publisher?

So, I am also assuming that your companies will turn down work from designers that are not knowledgeable?
We could start another post about some of the horrific jobs we have received from designers.......

 

[Tech]

@dgraves,
I posted a thread similar to this last year and got smack down as well. The lesson is not what you prefer but what the rest of the real world wants, even if they don't understand or accept your logic.

Where I am, highers ups wants RGB workflow, they can have it. Just don't come to me every other project wondering why our in-house Epson proof or Xerox proof isn't matching up with actual match print or wet proof...when nothing in-house is color calibrated in the first place. They start with unrealized expectation and will either accept sightly off finish products or spend the extra money to have the colors fixed by printers.

Also RGB or CMYK is not always the issue at hand. It can be as simple as an unexpected and out of calibration press/profile that runs too much yellow and resulting in unwanted yellow in images that will make your clients go "hmmm...." and run in circles chasing their tales and drive everyone else crazy.

 

[pcmodem]

How does Hexichrome come into effect if the customer supplies RGB images?