Remote Proofing

Flexo-G

Member
Is anyone out there using remote proofing? Setting up an identical printer and color management software at a client's office so they can print their own hard copy proofs. Does this sound dangerous?

Thanks,
G
 

Cory Smith

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

we did that with one of our biggest clients. They are about an hour from the shop, so it made sense to install a proofer and software at their location.

The amount of time/money we save running proofs to and from is huge and we can turn their jobs a day faster now. It's a win/win.
 

meddington

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

We have about 8 remote proofing sites right now and have been doing remote printer for 5+ years or so. We use a GMG Rip to drive the printers, but all the color management is performed at our host site, and just the file data set to the remote site (all that's needed is a compatable printer w/ ethernet or a pc and an IP address). This makes is much easier to control, and takes aways responsibility for accuracy from the client site ...so they don't have to know anything about calibration or profiling, though we do require them to ship us back calibration charts regularly to keep the system in check...this would be eliminated with one of those HP Zseries printers with te onboard spectrophotometer). Remote printing can be more about IT connectivity than about color management.

Edited by: Michael Eddington on Sep 17, 2007 8:24 AM
 

Flexo-G

Member
Re: Remote Proofing

Thanks,
But how can you be sure that what the client is seeing on their end is the same as what you are seeing. Aren't there several variables that can affect the proof output, ie: ink/toner levels, room temperature, stock/paper, etc?

I work in a flexo world where there are many more variables at plate and press level as well.
Is anyone experienced with Flexo Color Management. It seems to be a bit more complicated than Offset and Digital?

Thanks,
G
 

papa v2.0

Member
Re: Remote Proofing

Yes there is the problem of viewing conditions. While the remote proof might be colormetricaly identical to the one at your end, depending on the viewing conditions the remote proof could have a different colour appearance.

Thats the problem with good remote proofing. Fine if both ends have viewing booths with D50 lamps but more than likely they haven't.
 

Andy

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

That's not difficult these days. Here in the UK there are some viewing
booths that cost < £1K. I haven't tried them yet, but plan on doing so.
 

meddington

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

>But how can you be sure that what the client is seeing on their end is the same as what you are seeing. Aren't there several variables that can affect the proof output, ie: ink/toner levels, room temperature, stock/paper, etc?

The important thing here is to ensure colorimetric output after the printer is installed at the client site. As I mentioned, our remote proofers are calibrated regularly (we do this by having charts shipped back to us for measreument, but if the client site has the software, it can be done onsite, or if you have a fancy HP Z series printer, calibration can be done automatically with the right software).

Beyond that, it doesn't hurt to invest in proof verification software that would allow measurement of the proof to compare to a standard. This requires a little bit of participation from the client site...unless again, you have an on board spectro.


>Thats the problem with good remote proofing. Fine if both ends have viewing booths with D50 lamps but more than likely they haven't.

Yep, but this is not just limited to remote proofing. Any proofs that are shipped out fall under this limitation as well. Some clients understand this and have invested invested in viewing booths. Others don't understand this, or won't invest the money, and they should be made aware of the limitations. Of course, an inexpensive viewing booth could easily be incorporated into a remote proofing site...if its critical color, I would mandate it.
 

meddington

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

>I work in a flexo world where there are many more variables at plate and press level as well.
Is anyone experienced with Flexo Color Management. It seems to be a bit more complicated than Offset and Digital?


We'll I'm not experienced in Flexo, but for the purposes of answering this question, I'll pretend to be. ;) I think the main challenge is creating the plate curves for Flexo and obtaining characterization data that create the profile. Here's an article concerining G7 for flexo.

http://www.flexography.org/flexo/article.cfm?ArticleID=221&morecounter=10622
 

Flexo-G

Member
Re: Remote Proofing

Thanks everyone,

Does anyone know if any of the mentioned proofing software will output dot for dot proofs?
 

stargate

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

Sure.

It's a option for gmg and it's called DotProof.

DotProof will let you print actual screened files on your rip (1 bit Tiff) or you can screened it in gmg as it comes with it's own rip also. You can go from 60 lpi up to as high 175 lpi.
 

stargate

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

Mike,

I have the fancy Z printer running with gmg and I love it. Now I am trying to get my hands on 880 series Epson...
 

meddington

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

GMG also offers FlexoProof geared specifically toward the Flexo industry. Not sure of all the differences between this and DotProof...does claim close intergration with Flexo workflows (Nexus/Esko) and ability to show misregistration in the proof
 

meddington

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

>I have the fancy Z printer running with gmg and I love it.

Cool. I'd be interested to know how it performs for you over the long term (how often print heads need replacing, clogging issues, frequency of calibration and how far it drifts between, ect).
 

disbellj

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

Michael,

If your customers had a Z series printer that auto-calibrated, all you would really need is the standard ICC profile for that proofer/paper/ink combo from the manufacturer, correct? And then you could let your proofing rip take care of the conversion from press profile to proofer profile (same as you do now, except without having to create the proofer profile from their sent calibration chart)? Sounds great.

Don
 
Re: Remote Proofing

Hi

Remote proofing is posilble and practical. I am working on a project where the printer is remote proofing with a view to going to press side softproofing in the future. The publishing client softproofs the pages, and as the soft proofing inferstucture is not yet in the printers, the printer produces 'remote proofs' on their proofing systems.

We use the Fogra Media Wedge and the new ISO 12647/7 standard for proof control, but have halved the De figures for average, maximum and pimaries.

A test forme is also run monthy at the printers and client and compared visually, the best test of all.


Regards

Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy
 
Re: Remote Proofing

Hi

Both at the clients for monthly checking and at the printers we are using GMG ColorProof v4 and Epson printers, and using GMG Proof Control to Fogra 39 based profiles/ISO standards.

Regards

Paul Sherfield
The Missing Horse Consultancy
 

stargate

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

Mike,

My 44" Z2100 is pretty steady. I do once a week re-cal but I am using Isis and do it myself. It doesn't drift more than 3.x dE. It's as good as any Epson 800 series except I don't clean the heads all the time. Just for that I like it better than Epson. Speed is pretty much the same as Epson but I am running it at 1200dpi versus 720 dpi for my Epsons. I use it for high quality proofing on good paper and also for newsprint proofing using end rolls.

I used to do the automatic calibration at night with build in i1 but it was using too much of the paper and all my other color profiling was done with Isis, so I wanted to be consistent. It's pretty coll to come to work and printer is calibrated. Gmg says build in i1 is great and they actually wants you to build mx3, mx4, mx5 and csc files with it for custom papers as you can see in Starter kit pdf. I did both with build in and with Isis and I got maybe a bit better color by using Isis (white backing). I don't remember if the build in i1 is UV-cut or not but it has black backing. It's a good printer and certified for Gracol and both SWOP standards with gmg. This week I had so much problem with dirty heads on Epson 9800 that I wish I only had Hp Zs. If only HP made 17" version of Z.
 

stargate

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

Paul, I have gmg and I love it. The thing that interests me is how do you control printer at remote location? You would have to see it on the network (have ip) to use the Automatic Cal Wizard. What kind of VPN software/hardware do you use?
 

meddington

Well-known member
Re: Remote Proofing

>If your customers had a Z series printer that auto-calibrated, all you would really need is the standard ICC profile for that proofer/paper/ink combo from the manufacturer, correct? And then you could let your proofing rip take care of the conversion from press profile to proofer profile (same as you do now, except without having to create the proofer profile from their sent calibration chart)?

Techinally yes, though I'm skeptical about any manufacturer supplied profile and the calibration charts are not actualy creating the "profile". With a GMG system, all you need is to create a printer calibration using the same target data as other calibrated printers (of the same make using the same consumables). Then its simply a process of iterating the printer calibration and the results are effectively identical to other printers using the +same+ printer profile. This is done quite easily with the Epson line of printers, but what the HP brings to the table is hands-off measurement of the calibration charts at the remote site, and as an option, remote proof verification. What I'm interested to know is how frequent the HP Z series requires recalibration and how it stands up over time. Other than nozzle clogs, Epson printers are very stable...
 

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