Rena Mach5 to replace my offset press?

[Printease]

Here is an interesting development in the Memjet saga....
InfoTrends InfoBlog » Delphax to Develop Production Color Inkjet Product Based on Memjet Heads

 

[kilgore]

We are in the trial phase of the oki..and have had a couple issues...the major issue is the embossing of the back seams to the front of the envelope. We prefer diagonal seams for our inserting equipment...and just ordered a case of side seam envelopes to see how noticeable this issue will be...knowing the flap will still emboss.
In my opinion, the embossing would be acceptable for direct mail..but for low run commercial work...not so much

 

[damfino]

Embossing

Embossing

There is no way around the Okidata embossing issue - fuser pressure is not adjustable.

In 2 years of trade work, only one customer objected.

 

[Roback]

My Mach 5 was delivered last week. So far I'm pretty happy. I also have an OKI 9650 that I run envelopes on so it was easy to compare. There's no doubt the toner machine is sharper but given the cost and speed of the OKI, the Mach 5 will be getting the bulk of my multi-color envelope orders. I run black envelopes on a Riso 990 and it has comparable quality to the Mach 5 and I've never had a complaint about the quality even though its also a step down from offset. I also have offset duplicators. Especially for applications like window envelopes where a small amount of quality loss will be acceptable since we can run them for around $40-50 less per thousand. One big benefit for the Mach 5 is that you can use normal window envelopes instead of the digital window envelopes. That alone saves about $20 per thousand. That plus the speed being 5 times faster at a cost of around .0027 per impression compared to .03 makes the Mach 5 a useful alternative to a laser printer or offset duplicator. For the most demanding customer, I'll continue to use the OKI. I bought the Mach 5 and the base OKI for under $18000.00. I thinks it's the best of both worlds.

 

[Roback]

Also, since there's no fuser in the Mach 5, the embossing issue is totally gone.

 

[damfino]

Can you print colors accurately on th Mach5? Reds tended to print brown in my testing.

 

[Roback]

I haven't actually printed a job to sell yet but in testing the reds seem to work fine. The colors are clearly flatter looking than toner but not much flatter than offset on uncoated stock. It could be that some color correction will have to be done to the file. The Mach 5 can print on any offset coated stock. Much like offset, the colors are much sharper then.

 

[Roback]

I just printed a job that had black & PMS 201. I did have to do a little color tweaking. My pressman asked me to pick out which was a sample from last time, printed on 1250 Multi, and which one was off the Mach 5. I had to guess because there was no visible difference in quality. I picked the wrong one. I had to run 5000 #10. I figure if the cost estimates are correct, this job cost $13.50 in consumables. Thats far below the cost for 2 metal plates, Ink and wash-up materials. It took about 45 min to run.

 

[BilLongua]

Rena mach 5

Rena mach 5

ROBACK, I am glad to hear that you are enjoying your new RENA MACH 5. We truly appreciate your business!

We are excited to use this revolutionary technology. It really is a breakthrough in our business. I wanted to comment (as the Product Manager) since this is a great forum and I see a lot of good conversation regarding our new printer. Some points:

1) The RENA MACH 5 is not intended to replace offset printing. It is designed to bring affordable, fast color to direct mail in a compact package.
2) We are working diligently on built-in color controls that we expect to see by the end of the year. Inkjet is more dependent on substrates, and the more porous the material, the less crisp output will appear. The same file can vary greatly on different stocks, so some manipulation of the original file to achieve the desired contrast and color to please the customer's eye.
3) I would certainly like to see a $50 Wal-Mart printer that prints on envelopes (even stuffed ones), cardstock, coated paper and more at production speeds with a cost per piece as minimal as ours, day in and day out for years. That would be something.

The new RENA MACH 5 is just the start of an entire range of products based on Memjet technology, and we are looking forward to much success in the coming years.

Sincerely,

William J Longua
Director of Product Marketing

Neopost USA Addressing Group
136 Green Tree Road, Ste 140
Oaks, PA 19456-1069

(888) 444-7362 ext. 120 phone

 

[Roback]

There presently is no way to produce 3-4 color envelopes on an offset press at a price customers will pay and give you a profit. You would have to charge $200 + per 1000. And even then the quality wouldn't be better becaus of registration issues etc. unless you were running them on a 4 color offset press at an even higher price. The Mach 5 is clearly the best alternative to offer affordable 4 color process and spot color envelopes at this time. the Mach 5 quality is clearly better than the Riso H 5500.

 

[Keith]

I was very interested and very excited about this machine!!!! Samples were given to my by a dealer and I was impressed. Then I received samples from the manufacturer.... and they had gotten wet in the mail. I was very saddened. Inkjet technology needs to hurry the hell up!!! And why in the world would any of the manufacturers think it's ok for the ink to run when wet???!!!!!

ARGH!!!!!

Keith

 

[graficworx]

Keith, I am so glad I am not the only one to have issues with inkjets and water. Not to be down on anyone, but this topic seemed to miss the fact that inkjets are not water safe, and it's not acceptable for it to run. Whenever I see a new ink technology, I always wet the printed piece, and the salesmen think I'm crazy, but if it's not water resistant I'm not interested. I don't understand why the Mach 5 couldn't use a UV set ink, or something else. Mimaki, HP, Epson all have water proof inks for outdoor use that work. The Mach 5 does have potential, but unless they switch the ink to something else, I'm not interested. One of my major selling points for offset is that the ink won't run and it won't emboss like a fuser.

 

[mac_man_luke]

Mimaki, HP, Epson all have water proof inks for outdoor use.

Problem with those inks is that they will only dry on synthetic material eg vinyl

 

[graficworx]

Yes, those are for a specific medium, but something like a UV curable ink would be good for this application. Kimotech uses a UV curing unit on their inkjet platesetters, so I'm sure something could be created. As a side note, does anyone know what the large inkjet web presses use for ink and is it water resistant?

 

[damfino]

Water Based Ink = Disaster

Water Based Ink = Disaster

I believe the issue with the MemJet technology is that the nozzles are so small (70,400 at 1600 x 1600 dpi) and clogging is such an issue, that water based ink is their only option.

Having 10 years experience with the same issue (Riso), the quickest and surest way to lose a customer is to sell water based printing as offset or laser. It's not that the ink won't run and spoil a job, it's just when.

 

[BilLongua]

Application Appropriate Inks

Application Appropriate Inks

The inks have to match several performance objectives. 1) Dry Time 2) Decap/clog Time 3) Media Range/Compatibility

Remember, this machine is not offered as a replacement for offset printing. The output that we generate on our products is primarily for direct mail and non-durable applications. The reality is that most mail moves through the postal system unscathed and arrives at the final recipient as intended. Our products send millions of pieces through the mail every day, and have for nearly 20 years now.

There are ink sets that are more waterfast than others but cannot dry on coated stocks, which are prevalent in our market segment. There are also trade-offs for all the types of ink chemistry that we can utilize. Not all ink substrates can be fired through thermal inkjet print heads, and alternative inks such as UV curable are difficult and costly to use.

The RENA Mach 5 inks are made to print on the widest variety of materials, with the lowest possible cost.

Sincerely,

William J Longua
Director of Product Marketing

Neopost USA Addressing Group
136 Green Tree Road, Ste 140
Oaks, PA 19456-1069

(888) 444-7362 ext. 120 phone

MACH5 | Rena Systems | Faster Print Lower Cost Full Color

 

[pressprint]

ComColor

ComColor

Riso ink jets are oil based and do not run and the ink dries instantly. The quality of the print is not that of laser but who really cares...its an envelope...How many out there would not open their mail because of the quality of print on the envelope. If youre looking to sell the envelopes, then yeah, I get it, for business owners, well, they should be able to figure it out.

 

[TheProcessIStheproduct]

I have seen Mach5 samples, they do smear and run, but it is not real bad, you kind of have to rub on it. I suspect that the manufacture will come out with a more water fast ink set, it would be great if it was something that could print on AQ, then it could double as an addresser. I will say I was impressed with sharpness of text, I was expecting more dithering.

 

[Roback]

I tested the water proofness of the output on my RENA and you can smear the printing with a little water and effort. Is this not the same ink thats been used for ink jet addressing machines for years. I haven't heard that moisture was a big issue there and I can't remember the last time I received a wet envelope through the mail.

 

[Roback]

Issues have arisen on the Memjet. Seems to be software related. Slows down or pauses after 75 or so impressions. Problems switching from portrait to landscape. I have another call in now, I'll keep you guys posted. Still very happy with the output, when I get it.