Saddle stitch and folding

[BlueL]

Hi I am new to this forum and need a little help. I have recently purchase a Konika Minolta C6501 with the bigger saddle stitch option (SD - 506). I am having a problem with the unit that seems to crush and crack the paper when folding no matter what paper i use or what gsm i use. THis also occurs when i use the folding option. Minolta tell me there is nothing they can do to fix it and that its normal. Has anyone had a similar problem and is there a fix for it as then the unit is a waste of time. I also run a xerox docu color 250 and have no problem with its folding unit. Please help

 

[UberTech]

I think you will find cracked folds pretty normal on digital and even offset. It's your paper that is cracking. The only way around it I have seen is pre-creasing. There was a thread on here some time ago on this topic. You should do a search.

 

[nwpmikey]

We have the same saddle stitcher on our 6501.. i would not expect it to fold without cracking, all our folded work is creased out in factory and folded out there and stitched books the covers printed on 6501 and creased in factory and then we use post inserter to insert cover during the run...

 

[BlueL]

Thanks for your help. I will do a search

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

What paper thickness and ink coverage? More common with thick paper and high ink coverage. With the paper, is there a choice of grain? We do not have digital printing inhouse but do cut down sheets for a customer who has a KM so that they can get grain along fold, wich has been a great quality improvement for them.

 

[BlueL]

From a 135gsm up to a 200gsm. Printing blank sheets does the same. Does this mean that the unit was a waste of money? My Docu Color 250 does not do this to the paper at all.

 

[BlueL]

Thanks for all your help. I will try crease first and then try the post insert.

 

[printer in heart]

Hi I am new to this forum and need a little help. I have recently purchase a Konika Minolta C6501 with the bigger saddle stitch option (SD - 506). I am having a problem with the unit that seems to crush and crack the paper when folding no matter what paper i use or what gsm i use. THis also occurs when i use the folding option. Minolta tell me there is nothing they can do to fix it and that its normal. Has anyone had a similar problem and is there a fix for it as then the unit is a waste of time. I also run a xerox docu color 250 and have no problem with its folding unit. Please help

Try ti use shrot grain paper.I had and have similar problems with prints coming from Xerox 5252, Short grain paper, 18x12 makes fold slightly better. I use Elite Gloss Cover 80lb from Xerox. Tried Future Cover but ink still craked during folding. Make sure that inside pages are also printed on short grain paper 18x12 -Good luck

 

[ZeeBees]

Hi I am new to this forum and need a little help. I have recently purchase a Konika Minolta C6501 with the bigger saddle stitch option (SD - 506). I am having a problem with the unit that seems to crush and crack the paper when folding no matter what paper i use or what gsm i use. THis also occurs when i use the folding option. Minolta tell me there is nothing they can do to fix it and that its normal. Has anyone had a similar problem and is there a fix for it as then the unit is a waste of time. I also run a xerox docu color 250 and have no problem with its folding unit. Please help

I have this problem only when booklet making with gloss paper over 200 GSM. with one exception on thinner papers, one booklet i print has mostly all black pages with the exception of the center spread being mainly white, this book will consistently crease or crack the paper and jam oddly, if i change the center spread to full heavy ink coverage, i don't get the problem. drove the service guy bonkers. you might try heavier ink coverage for glossy papers.
no problems with non-gloss hammermill papers.

 

[UberTech]

From a 135gsm up to a 200gsm. Printing blank sheets does the same. Does this mean that the unit was a waste of money? My Docu Color 250 does not do this to the paper at all.

You can make a 200 page booklet trimmed in full colour. NO ONE has that online capability, most of my clients would kill for one. If you have a PI you may be able to talk you clients into laminated covers for a better look.

 

[atomhouse]

Make sure your paper grain is going in the right direction. It should cleanly fold in half in whatever direction your book will fold in.

 

[maynardsayswhat]

Decent quick explanation of paper grain.

It's important to be sure that you get the grain of the paper to align properly with the fold so that grain and fold are in the same direction. I'm seeing more and more digital papers available only in long grain (i.e. 11x17") as opposed to short grain (17x11") which makes many standard brochures and half-folds a pain to step/repeat properly without a ton of waste.

Of course, some clients (esp. "quick print" types) don't mind a bit of cracking which is easier to get away with on thinner papers. But thick 200gsm+ stuff will crack on the c6500 fold line unless you get the right grain paper. And even then... well, it's digital =P

Good luck!

 

[postnetnc133]

We typically will print the covers, crease/score and then have the covers pull from the bypass when we print the guts. We dont like to do thick stock but we have had really good luck with 10 and 12 pt C1S Carolina for covers.

Forgot to mention we are running a 252 if that matters.

 

[ondemandbindery]

This is just all part of Digital. Print, crease the cover, and let it eat. I hope customers are getting educated enough about the quality expectations of a book that comes off a Digital box. On occasion I will take a short run, high page digital book and run it through my presser stacker for customers to try and make it more seller friendly. You want a dirty low ball price and quick turn then expect some quality boundaries. This is the world of digital.

HTH,
John Weaver

 

[Craig]

This is just all part of Digital. Print, crease the cover, and let it eat. I hope customers are getting educated enough about the quality expectations of a book that comes off a Digital box. On occasion I will take a short run, high page digital book and run it through my presser stacker for customers to try and make it more seller friendly. You want a dirty low ball price and quick turn then expect some quality boundaries. This is the world of digital.

HTH,
John Weaver

Not always the case John. We did a run for a shop in town that was short on a job from their SM 52. They had a hard time telling which came from my digital press and which was from their Heidelberg. Cheap digital box = Cheap results.

 

[lfelton]

I'm with Craig, John. Yes, I can look at the output from a new 5c B2 runnning 200lpi hybrid and compare it side by side with the output from a digi box and the litho's clearly still better. But they're both good and that's the point, it's rare that the difference makes any difference.

We print a short run (a few thousand copies) full colour glossy magazine for one of the most prestigious institutions in the world. Litho of course, lovingly crafted by time served experts Due to a cock up, we had to print a suppliment digitally. "It won't be very good", we said. "Get it here NOW", they said. Afterwards, their reaction was: "Was it any different? It looked the same." Well no it didn't!! But the difference made no difference to them.

 

[msaeger]

I'm sure this is one of those things where yeah they look different but unless you have the two side by side or someone telling you what's wrong it looks good.

 

[Craig]

The truth is very few people have the eye to tell the difference or just plain don't care. Pleasing colors is good enough in most cases of the everyday needs.