The same CMYK color in text and line art but very different on print

[BarbWPP]

I found this in that article at Real World Illustrator: What's in a file? :

"- PDF/X-3 - seen as the "next" step for printing workflows, PDF/X-3's main difference from PDF/X-1a is that RGB data is allowed, on the condition that an intent profile is present. This allows printers to attain greater control over their own color conversions and color integrity, as the conversion from RGB to CMYK happens on their watch -- not the designer's."

If you were relying on PDF/x-3 to make everything cmyk, maybe it did not quite happen.

On the other hand, the sample does look all cmyk to me, what I have actually checked so far.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I ran out the file on our Epson 9900 using Kodak Proofing Software using the APPE RIP (not PostScript). All the text is the same colour.

I would encourage your printer to test their DFE or RIP settings using the following test resources:

Downloads [ECI.ORG]
Altona Test Suite 2.0 - Technical Page 2
Altona Test Suite 1.2

Overprint Verification - Ghent Workgroup

Ghent Output Suite - Ghent Workgroup


Regards,

Stephen Marsh

 

[igor]

pacart thanks for the info. Printer said he used "Simulate Overprint" option, but that it didn't help in this case.

BarbWPP, but the text that is just text is not printed correctly, the text that is rasterized OR outlined is OK, just regular text. But it's a good tip to always keep the text in front images with transparency. So standalone text is causing problems, not the text under image with transparency.

Huge thanks again for all great tips!

Igor

 

[rich apollo]

I suspect that the RIP is converting the PDF file from FOGRA39 to the output colorspace of the printer. Most RIPs have the option to set the color management settings differently for vector elements than for raster elements, and some have specific options for text elements. Some folks believe the best practice is to set the vector elements to convert using a relative colorimetric rendering intent and the raster elements to convert using a perceptual rendering intent.

I can also envision a difference resulting from the type being in a spot color.

 

[igor]

I double checked that there is no trace of spot colors in whole PDF. I even have in my preflight profile checked not to allow spot colors. Also the overprint attribute is not selected anywhere.

This seems to be only related to text vs. line art so your explanation makes perfect sense!

Thanks.

Igor

 

[igor]

Stephen Marsh, sorry I didn't see your post before. Thanks a lot for doing this test and your suggestions which I will forward to my printer. It seems I got another confirmation that there is nothing wrong with my PDF.

BarbWPP regarding CMYK colors - it's 100% CMYK - preflight confirmed and checked manually in Indesign, I also checked PDF with Illustrator and Acrobat.

Igor

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Stephen Marsh, sorry I didn't see your post before. Thanks a lot for doing this test and your suggestions which I will forward to my printer. It seems I got another confirmation that there is nothing wrong with my PDF.

BarbWPP regarding CMYK colors - it's 100% CMYK - preflight confirmed and checked manually in Indesign, I also checked PDF with Illustrator and Acrobat.

Igor

Igor, I plan to test using the PostScript RIP option in Kodak Proofing Software and to also test with ORIS Colour Tuner which has a native and APPE RIP option.

That being said, have you had your printer output the exact same test file that you posted here? Even if you copied and pasted from the live job file and used the same export settings - the file that we have may not behave the same way.

Strongly suggest that your printer performs test prints using the previously mentioned Altona and Ghent test files that are designed to highlight RIP setting issues.


Stephen Marsh

 

[dgraves8rd]

Sounds like a transparency issue. Is he using active transparency or is he flattening the file? Looks like the image was on top of the type (halfway), thus the transparency issue. Re-send the file to him and bring all text to the front.

 

[igor]

Stephen, thanks a lot for your help. Yes, this is the same file as sent to the printer for testing purposes. I will notify the printer about Altona and Ghent files - I will visit him in next few days.

Dgraves - thanks for the tip. I know the text behind transparent image can cause problems. But that's not the actual problem here - the problem is in color difference between outlined text (and line art) and regular text - and this is most easily visible in the example I uploaded. Even if text stands alone and page has no transparency at all, the text will be much much darker than the shape with the same color (or outlined text).

Igor