Xerox Color 1000 Press

[Dennyboy]

Xerox 1000

Xerox 1000

The impulse purchase of one of these machines can bankrupt a print company. A printer must first and only first consider whether or not-and with crystal clarity-can and WILL this machine grow his CURRENT BUSINESS. You can't HOPE to do more business. Now given the current state of world economy I believe Xerox has the mentality of BUILD IT and THEY WILL COME. Now, if the printer has the BUY IT AND THEY WILL COME MENTALITY he might as will file for Chapter 7 right now. Caution is the word today. The road it littered with dead print companies. Look around your own neighborhood and count how many companies were here 10 years ago. I know in my area alone-within a 10 mile radius 18-yes 18 companies-large and small have bit the dust. The ones that went down the fastest were the ones who bought the 5 and 6 color presses with coaters. I follow the simple rule of leasing or buying and making monthly payments (excluding click charges). "If the lease and/or monthly payments ON ALL EQUIPMENT exceed 10% of your YEARLY gross-DON'T DO IT. Remember, if you cannot take a salary AND IN ADDITION BUT SAVINGS AWAY EACH MONTH-get a real job.

 

[Dennyboy]

Xerox 1000

Xerox 1000

The impulse purchase of one of these machines can bankrupt a print company. A printer must first and only first consider whether or not-and with crystal clarity-can and WILL this machine grow his CURRENT BUSINESS. You can't HOPE to do more business. Now given the current state of world economy I believe Xerox has the mentality of BUILD IT and THEY WILL COME. Now, if the printer has the BUY IT AND THEY WILL COME MENTALITY he might as will file for Chapter 7 right now. Caution is the word today. The road it littered with dead print companies. Look around your own neighborhood and count how many companies were here 10 years ago. I know in my area alone-within a 10 mile radius 18-yes 18 companies-large and small have bit the dust. The ones that went down the fastest were the ones who bought the 5 and 6 color presses with coaters. I follow the simple rule of leasing or buying and making monthly payments (excluding click charges). "If the lease and/or monthly payments ON ALL EQUIPMENT exceed 10% of your YEARLY gross-DON'T DO IT. Remember, if you cannot take a salary AND IN ADDITION PUT SAVINGS AWAY EACH MONTH-get a real job.

 

[lkl7255]

VDP vs. Static

VDP vs. Static

Keith and Craig–

Great comments on VDP vs. Static jobs. A couple things came to my mind… I know at trade shows I talk a lot about VDP mostly because it is something that differentiates digital from offset, so it is an additional business offering for customers to offer clients that DO want to do it, but also… when doing a mailing, research has shown that the return rate on direct mail is higher because of the personalization. So I think it is something we like to talk about because it is another option for you to offer customers, and the perceived ROI for them.

Now, on the other hand… variable data is only as good as your database. If your database information isn’t up to date, then that isn’t good at all. I think more static jobs are done because of the database/information management issue, as well as the fact (in my opinion) that people are intimidated by it. Most customers probably aren’t sure how to design a variable job or outsourcing the design takes more out of their pocket. AND if you look at all of the possible jobs you can print, most of them don’t require VDP at all… as you mentioned business cards, brochures, posters, books…and others.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that I can see how more jobs would be static, but if that big job came in that required complex VI… Xerox machines can handle it. So yes, VI is a selling point, but I think the monthly print volume, productivity on the heavier weights, substrate latitude, and (now) the added colors for those static jobs is even more important. Now to get that larger sheet size…!!

 

[X33]

I am so sick of every sales monkey talking about VDP! OK you've beat the dead horse already. Almost everyone I have been in contact with in the last 5 years we have been printing variable data has called it a glorified mail merge. It's not the golden ticket, I make FAR more from static prints than variable data.

Now Xerox is grasping at straws when they try to tell someone that they can justify an iGen with less than 100K prints/month. Of course it's all about the sale!

VDP is not a glorified mail merge. You can do a mail merge with your printer at home. Real VDP is much more than that, it's a huge market that some of the biggest Commercial Printers in the world have started to understand, and that's why they are moving from the being a "printing company" into a "marketing communications company".

Have you seen any of your competitors changing their name to "marketing communications"?

I'm not saying that static printing won't make you money; of course it does, it's been like that since printing was invented. But when you are concerned with print volumes, you need to find new applications that make the equation profitable.

 

[ATown]

iGen Haters

iGen Haters

It appears that there are a lot of iGen haters on this forum. I know the iGen is expensive but there is definitely a chance to make a lot of money with it. VDP is more than just mail merge. VDP can be used for things like photo books and direct marketing. Shutterfly is a perfect example of a company that uses variable data printing to great effect. In fact i believe they have 6 iGens.

Don't hate the iGen because you’re too stuck in your ways to really use VDP. VDP is the future of print. You can get static images anywhere. Do you want to be as successful as shutter fly or continue hating VDP and be like every other struggling static printer.

 

[Craig]

VDP is not a glorified mail merge. You can do a mail merge with your printer at home. Real VDP is much more than that, it's a huge market that some of the biggest Commercial Printers in the world have started to understand, and that's why they are moving from the being a "printing company" into a "marketing communications company".

I have been involved in VDP for at least the last 5 years, I am well aware it is not "Glorified" mail merge, those are terms my customers use. As a matter of fact I would say that 40 to 60% tell me that a VDP mail piece screams junk mail. I agree with lkl7255, it's only as good as the data, junk goes in junk goes out.

Also if I change my name to "marketing communications company" I automatically get it??? Come On, you know better than that!! That's another "fad" brought on by "industry experts" who claim that "PRINTERS" are a dying breed. People no longer want to deal with a "PRINTER" they want the talk the the Politically Correct "Marketing and Communications Company"! Just like an "EMPLOYEE" is now an "ASSOCIATE". Tell me in the end what does the "Marketing and Communications Company" do.... I know, PRINT Oh My God their PRINTERS!!!!!

 

[gcspec]

Ah yes, once again, the KM guys just can't resist spreadking their special brand of love! Good morning sunshine - how are you feeling today?? Were you a former Xerox employee or something? Show me any KM product that can run 3.5 million impressions a month on 14" X 22" and actually hit and hold colors - then you can speak all you'd like! Always being honest, I am a Xerox rep. I just installed the new DocuColor 7002 right across the room from one of your beloved 6500 machines and the funniest thing happened...the Xerox actually matched the offset and proof sample exactly and the KM had a really high abundance of yellow on the page printed from the same file - when measured, the delta was 9.3! How can that be, listening to you, the KM is the greatest thing since sliced bread! Oh yeah, and that KM was calibrated that very morning. Please stop trying to make your product into something that it is not and will never be!

 

[gcspec]

This is actually very good advice for print companies. Being a Xerox sales rep, sure, I'd like to sell equipment - that's how I get paid afterall! If I encounter an offset shop with no digital today, chances are there numbers have been slipping a bit and they are seeing the need to add digital themselves or risk further erosion. That is where I start. The biggest advantage to Xerox I feel as a past printer myself who's business didn't make it, is that there are lots of choices in different price points to make sure a printer is taking the right bite off the right apple instead of making their business fit a printer I'd like to sell. Selling iGens is great, but so is selling a DC242 to a company who needs to add digital. My job also includes helping that print shop, just like the big ones, make the most of their investment and grow revenue with it. Xerox offers the tools and resources to make this growth a reality and hopefully my past as a printer, including being one of those that closed makes my input that much more useful.

 

[che.c]

I had to.. again..

 

[gcspec]

That is funny!

 

[UberTech]

Ah yes, once again, the KM guys just can't resist spreadking their special brand of love! Good morning sunshine - how are you feeling today?? Were you a former Xerox employee or something? Show me any KM product that can run 3.5 million impressions a month on 14" X 22" and actually hit and hold colors - then you can speak all you'd like! Always being honest, I am a Xerox rep. I just installed the new DocuColor 7002 right across the room from one of your beloved 6500 machines and the funniest thing happened...the Xerox actually matched the offset and proof sample exactly and the KM had a really high abundance of yellow on the page printed from the same file - when measured, the delta was 9.3! How can that be, listening to you, the KM is the greatest thing since sliced bread! Oh yeah, and that KM was calibrated that very morning. Please stop trying to make your product into something that it is not and will never be!

Show me any xerox product that can run 3.5 million impressions a month on 14" X 22" and actually hit and hold colors that is in the same segment as konica products. I mean, I doubt you could do this on a 700 as you would run out of toner, should the amount of skew and patchy density be acceptable.

You randomly walk in and compare a print of some machine 'somewhere' doesn't mean it is not capable of matching a print, I have done it dozens of times. Then I go and laminate it with any lamination process and it doesn't peel off, it's great.

 

[GusG]

I had to.. again..

Loved it when I first saw it, thanks che.c. Printed it out and put it up on the wall. Both the Xerox and the Konica techs were frowning at it. Guess I can take it down now that I've got rid of the Konicas, save for one small b&w one that has been waiting for a spare for only a few months.

 

[gcspec]

Ever heard of an iGen? That's the big Xerox machine you guys try to tell customers that you can outrun with your office copiers.

 

[UberTech]

Ever heard of an iGen? That's the big Xerox machine you guys try to tell customers that you can outrun with your office copiers.

I thought I said in the same range as the 65 which the igen is obviously not. Although you could get about 15 6500's for the price of an igen. Speed isn't really a factor Here as the quality off an igen is truely disapointing.

 

[andreisarbu]

Xerox 1000

Xerox 1000

Hi guys,

I admire you for supporting your employees, but believe me, most of us want to have some more details and opinions on that topic and I personally wasted like 15 minutes with your argue. That's ridiculous it makes no sense to compare trucks with Mini's, they are completely different as you know.

Regards,
Andrei

 

[Verdant]

I agree. I've found a lot of useful information on this site (thanks to everyone who's contributed!), but a lot of time is wasted skimming through all the different arguments between sales reps. I know I'm here, but I'm sure others would agree that if you want to make a sales pitch, start your own thread and highlight your equipment there. Please leave the other topics alone so people don't get discouraged into coming here. The initial question was to see if anyone knew anything about the newly announced Xerox printer, not whether a dozen KM6500s are as good as an Igen. To answer that question, my guess is that anyone who does know anything about these printers is under non-disclosure and unable to discuss anything until Xerox officially releases that information. Until then, all we can do is guess.

 

[digitalprintguy]

I think you Konica guys are drinking way too much kool aid!

 

[gcspec]

Oh well, life goes on.

 

[docurley]

Well has a new member I have found some of the info on this new Colour 1000/800 interesting but I have to say there is more crap cluttering up this thread then good info so if there is a mod here I would strip it out.

Now I would like more facts about this machine and what other kit would be in the same league as come September our site will be looking to replace our three Xerox 8000 which are coming out of pepper corn.

 

[gcspec]

Sorry to let you down, but while we do have some information, we have been non-disclosed. The wait for info will be a bit longer, in the US anyway.