Xerox Color 1000 Press

[geoman]

Seen it. Love it. As a designer I'll now be purposing a lot of my work to take advantage of the 5th "color".

 

[JayDA]

Seen it. Love it. As a designer I'll now be purposing a lot of my work to take advantage of the 5th "color".

And that is the exact problem, it sure is nifty....but who the heck is going to design a piece around a specific machine? I guess if you control 100% of the creative process, or you have a close relationship with your design folks it could work?

My Xerox rep was by with some samples yesterday. The clear toner applied in spot form is cool, but I'm not sure how much real world use anyone would have for it. The full sheets that I checked out were not impressive at all, I would much rather UV coat something offline.

Just one man's opinion, I'm certainly not on the "cutting edge" of anything design related.

 

[Keness]

And that is the exact problem, it sure is nifty....but who the heck is going to design a piece around a specific machine?

But spot varnish isn't a new thing... It is somewhat new to digital, and brand new to Xerox, but it isn't new at all in the offset world. Lots of jobs use it, but until now it had to go offset. Those jobs can now (theoretically) be run on the 800 or 1000.

 

[JayDA]

But spot varnish isn't a new thing... It is somewhat new to digital, and brand new to Xerox, but it isn't new at all in the offset world. Lots of jobs use it, but until now it had to go offset. Those jobs can now (theoretically) be run on the 800 or 1000.

You are absolutely correct, I guess I'm just in a different world, we broker a lot of print to the outside as well....and it's just something I rarely get asked for.

 

[Keness]

You are absolutely correct, I guess I'm just in a different world, we broker a lot of print to the outside as well....and it's just something I rarely get asked for.

I'm 100% digital, and never send anything out, so I've always had a bit of spot varnish envy... Doesn't mean I'm going to jump right out and buy one of these guys, though! They look very impressive, but I'm just not sure they bring enough to the table that I can't get with several smaller machines to justify their cost. (For me, anyway.)

 

[geoman]

JayDA, ofcourse one designs for a specific machine, process, capabilty etc. That is the very nature of any of the design disciplines.

This is the differentiator, the thing that sets one product offering apart from another. And ofcourse, the person who understands the process better than the next will have the advantage.

Print brokers are commodity traders, designers are value traders. In my business I bridge both camps. I operate a print/publishing business and do whatever every other printer does - commoditise print. I operate a design practice and this is where the fun begins. I can pick and choose the clients I service, and have the luxury to challenge my suppliers and their capabilities. If they can't do what I require, I pass on them.

 

[DigiPrint]

You are absolutely correct, I guess I'm just in a different world, we broker a lot of print to the outside as well....and it's just something I rarely get asked for.

Yes spot coating has been available on offset for awhile but in static form only. Remember, the advantage to digital is that the spot coating can change sheet to sheet in a variable data campaign.

Also, I have seen the samples and ran test files as well at a demo last friday (may 14) - the IQ on this machine is unreal and we had the coating flood the image and it looked great. We ordered the color 800 press right away and are looking forward to installing it in the next week or so

 

[DigiPrint]

Don't want to rain on any parade here but...

"A new full-color tandem engine with a “large diameter seamless intermediate transfer belt” to allow rated speed output for all paper weights"

Transfer belts have been seamless since there inception.

" a newly developed belt roll fuser"

Just like a konica, nice to see them catch up.

Is this a new engine or a rehash of the IGEN? I would say this will be a vecels engine.

As with others, the price is obsurd and you could buy two engines from another vendor and have a higher sheet output with redundancy.

UberTech, you know what is nice to see...that konica has finally caught up and realized they should have more than one production machine. The price is not obsurd and you can buy two lower quality Konica machines - the reality is that a printer like me trusts the xerox brand, innovation, products and services. When you drive down the road and see a BMW car dealership and a kia dealership across the street, do you expect to pay the same price for the two cars? You get what you pay for, same in the print industry.

This is a new engine, it does not use traditional toner/fuser oil and looks nothing like an iGen, the iGen tower is 8' tall this is 6', and it is about 2' longer than my 5000AP.

 

[Josh]

Hi DigiPrint,

What kind of price did it work out at?

 

[RKS]

Hi DigiPrint,

Yes, I would also be interested in how your machine is configured with what rip, bindery, etc? Price?

 

[globalgateways]

Clear toner, hasent the canon c1+ had that for a few years now? maybe new for xerox and new for a production machine, but i would hardly call it new technology

 

[UberTech]

UberTech, you know what is nice to see...that konica has finally caught up and realized they should have more than one production machine. The price is not obsurd and you can buy two lower quality Konica machines - the reality is that a printer like me trusts the xerox brand, innovation, products and services. When you drive down the road and see a BMW car dealership and a kia dealership across the street, do you expect to pay the same price for the two cars? You get what you pay for, same in the print industry.

This is a new engine, it does not use traditional toner/fuser oil and looks nothing like an iGen, the iGen tower is 8' tall this is 6', and it is about 2' longer than my 5000AP.

This is an excellent analogy. My partner used to work for an automotive break down service, a majority of the calls were infact for BMW. Another example of a company relying on heritage to sell a product. If you look at the Features of bizhub PRESS C8000 | New Konica Minolta Digital Press website you will find some technologies that are actually new for digital printing. For example water based hydration.

 

[Josh]

What's water based hydration?

 

[lfelton]

Hydration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Josh]

Hydration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cheers for that!!

...I was hoping for a more "digital print specific" answer!!

 

[RKS]

They are applying moisture to the sheet on both sides after it is printed through a combination of rollers, then going through further decurlers. One would have to wonder about the defects this could cause with the image and maybe sometimes with colored paper. This could affect the color of the paper and cause possible streaking.

 

[lfelton]

Sorry Josh, just my form of humour, probably twisted by being stuck here at home on antibiotics and prescription painkillers instead of being at ipex where I'd planned on being. I was clumsily pointing out that hydration, although it sounds exactly right, is in fact already a technical name for a chemical reaction. Apologies to Uber, 'cos I can't think of a better word for adding the water back in that you've just taken out. Maybe Rehydration comes closest?

Anyway enough rambling. As explained to me by KM this is not a de-curler, it's designed to take out the waves (or ripple) that you get from fuser based systems. This is not a problem for most applications as it tends to be hardly noticable - curl is the big thing you want to eliminate. Wave is a problem for book (text) blocks and some other applications, so this option is designed to eliminate that and will be brilliant if it does.

RKS, I'm sure your right, but if KM can solve all the potential problems they will have moved the game on significantly in digital printing. As Uber says, a real innovation to address a real world production problem, not a marketing gimick.

 

[RKS]

Ifelton, I would agree with you, in principle it sounds great. I'm really wanting to see if the cooling unit on the 800/1000 does the same thing. As we've seen on the 700, sheet deformation and or stretch can be a problem. Almost makes me think of the old days of offset trying to fit corner to corner. We can get the 700 to really register to less than half that of their specs. The xerox tech's cringe when I call about registration & or totally even color across & down the sheet. Their regional specialists, here, are the only ones that carry densitometers and the regular techs just eyeball.

 

[geoman]

I've had the privelege of running test sheets on the C1000 ranging from 90gsm Gloss and Silk right up to 350gsm Silk coated artboard - duplexed.
The output of the sheet is freaking FLAT!
Better than anything I've seen come from any other digital device so far - including NexPress and iGen. What's more, the stock doesn't develop a time delayed curl even after its been sitting around for a few days.

 

[Whygen]

Well, had a glimpse of both the 1000 and the c8000 yesterday at Ipex but both were outputting the usual standard images that manufacturers use to show their presses off (cant blame them I suppose) and didnt really represent a true test of their output. The KM looks very good, the test prints were flat very much in line with what the 6501 produces - quality on the test prints looks good - skin tones and solids were good and maybe slightly better quality than 6501 (dot pattern looks cleaner). The 1000 prints looked quite glossy compared to the KM - apparently you can adjust the level?.... Quality looked good - although a colleague did see some banding on his prints..
Hard to get any decent test time on either machine due to the amount of people around the machines...In summary both look like good machines, comparable quality, speeds etc - KM cheaper....take ya pick!