Xerox Nuvera 144 vs. D136

[AP90]

Hey guys, I am looking into getting a B&W machine. Xerox has presented me with their "final" solution and it included a C75 and Nuvera 144. They lease on the C75 is a good deal, but the nuvera seems astronomical. As of right now Ill be doing approx. 225,000 clicks a month on the B&W machine.

Im looking for something that is going to give me my biggest ROI. They nuvera is an impressive machine, but seems like huge overkill for what I need. Its recommended monthly average is up to 2,000,000 and duty cycle is something like 3,500,000. If I eventually get that much business then boy will I be a happy guy! But the D136 seems like a better fit for me. its average monthly volume is up to 700,000 with a duty cycle of 2,000,000. It just seems like this would be a better machine, but I don't know what the difference in quality in the 2 machines. Also, I know the D136 isn't as fast as the nuvera, but if the cost is a big enough difference, I can get over that. Does anyone have any experience with either machine? Id like to get a good comparison of them from you guys. Also, would anyone be able to give me a rough estimate on cost of the D136 and the Nuvera? I called a 3rd party seller and said I could get a D136 with 100,000-400,000 impressions on it for $27,000-35,000. I can tell you that is a huge savings over leasing a Nuvera.

And yes, I am looking into other companies, but I can tell you that I'm not impressed with any other companies sales men other than HP. They responded in a timely fashion. Canon has yet to responded after 2 months. Kodak called me back after a week or so and said they would send me information and call back, but that was about 2 months ago and have yet to hear anything. I stopped by and talked to a Ricoh salesman 3 weeks ago. He said they would pass it on to the right person and get back with me. I have yet to hear anything from them. And lastly, is Konica. I was really looking forward to seeing their machines and pricing as I have heard good things about them. I called and spoke with a salesman and he said he would get back with me. That was 2 months ago. I even called back a week ago and they said I would be contacted the next day. No one ever called. I understand these guys are busy, but It reflects very poorly on them with how long this has taken. Should I be expecting waits this long? Or am I just getting poor service? I would be averaging 350,000+ clicks a month so I would figure they would want to at least get in contact with me. Thanks guys!

 

[lfelton]

Hey guys, I am looking into getting a B&W machine. Xerox has presented me with their "final" solution and it included a C75 and Nuvera 144. They lease on the C75 is a good deal, but the nuvera seems astronomical. As of right now Ill be doing approx. 225,000 clicks a month on the B&W machine.

Im looking for something that is going to give me my biggest ROI. They nuvera is an impressive machine, but seems like huge overkill for what I need. Its recommended monthly average is up to 2,000,000 and duty cycle is something like 3,500,000. If I eventually get that much business then boy will I be a happy guy! But the D136 seems like a better fit for me. its average monthly volume is up to 700,000 with a duty cycle of 2,000,000. It just seems like this would be a better machine, but I don't know what the difference in quality in the 2 machines. Also, I know the D136 isn't as fast as the nuvera, but if the cost is a big enough difference, I can get over that. Does anyone have any experience with either machine? Id like to get a good comparison of them from you guys. Also, would anyone be able to give me a rough estimate on cost of the D136 and the Nuvera? I called a 3rd party seller and said I could get a D136 with 100,000-400,000 impressions on it for $27,000-35,000. I can tell you that is a huge savings over leasing a Nuvera.

And yes, I am looking into other companies, but I can tell you that I'm not impressed with any other companies sales men other than HP. They responded in a timely fashion. Canon has yet to responded after 2 months. Kodak called me back after a week or so and said they would send me information and call back, but that was about 2 months ago and have yet to hear anything. I stopped by and talked to a Ricoh salesman 3 weeks ago. He said they would pass it on to the right person and get back with me. I have yet to hear anything from them. And lastly, is Konica. I was really looking forward to seeing their machines and pricing as I have heard good things about them. I called and spoke with a salesman and he said he would get back with me. That was 2 months ago. I even called back a week ago and they said I would be contacted the next day. No one ever called. I understand these guys are busy, but It reflects very poorly on them with how long this has taken. Should I be expecting waits this long? Or am I just getting poor service? I would be averaging 350,000+ clicks a month so I would figure they would want to at least get in contact with me. Thanks guys!

If I understand it right, a D136 is a facelifted version of the 4127. We have a 4127 that we've been running for a few years and also a Nuvera 144 EA that we've had installed for a few months. First of all, the lower end machine is really a fantastic bit of kit, it has hardly ever let us down and has done millions of clicks for us. Having said that, the Nuvera is in a different league, it just chews through the work. What are the big differences? Paper handling is probably #1. The Nuvera will handle coated papers and duplex them with no dramas. It will handle light short grain weight book wove stock and the 4127 just won't. It stacks pretty much all paper neatly and with the SEM we are seeing flatter sheets. I don't know all of the finishing options on the D136, but the heavy duty production stacker on the Nuvera is perfect for heavy production. They supply it with 2 dollies, so it's wheel it out and start again immediately. We also love the offset stack function, where we can queue up a load of smaller jobs and have them jog offset on the dolly. It's also much happier handling oversized sheets, i.e. SRA3 and the Nuvera "special" size where it runs at full engine speed. Second difference is in the image quality. The 4127/DXXX is great, but the Nuvera is better, plus it allows you to fine tune the screening according to the requirements of the job. If you get the 4127/DXXX with a RIP it's much more expensive than the standard machine, whereas the Nuvera comes with Freeflow as standard (no other option).

Disadvantages of the Nuvera (apart from cost)? Well it sounds a bit like a (quiet-ish) commercial jet taking off when it starts, which is amusing the first few times, but not suitable for any kind of office environment (the 4127 just sounds like a photocopier). We keep the Nuvera in a temperature and humidity controlled room but the 4127 seems happy pretty much anywhere.

If you don't need the Nuvera, the "lower end" Xerox is a fine machine in it's own right.

 

[Craig]

I can report on the Konica Minolta. We have had a 1200 for 3 years and have about 12,000,000 on it. Your service guy WILL make a HUGE difference. We had a few problems at the start with a service guy who worked on office machines. I finally dug in my heals and demanded a production service guy and it has made a huge difference in the performance of that machine. It will run just about anything we throw at it, including coated paper. KM has the most diverse finishing you can hang on the end of it of all the suppliers. The Saddle Stitcher is about the largest in the industry and it WILL stitch 50 signatures like they say. If I did anything different I would get the vacuum feed paper deck, other than that I can say I am quite happy with its performance.

 

[arossetti]

Have you looked at a slower Nuvera?

 

[Stickman42]

Hey guys, I am looking into getting a B&W machine. Xerox has presented me with their "final" solution and it included a C75 and Nuvera 144. They lease on the C75 is a good deal, but the nuvera seems astronomical. As of right now Ill be doing approx. 225,000 clicks a month on the B&W machine.

Im looking for something that is going to give me my biggest ROI. They nuvera is an impressive machine, but seems like huge overkill for what I need. Its recommended monthly average is up to 2,000,000 and duty cycle is something like 3,500,000. If I eventually get that much business then boy will I be a happy guy! But the D136 seems like a better fit for me. its average monthly volume is up to 700,000 with a duty cycle of 2,000,000. It just seems like this would be a better machine, but I don't know what the difference in quality in the 2 machines. Also, I know the D136 isn't as fast as the nuvera, but if the cost is a big enough difference, I can get over that. Does anyone have any experience with either machine? Id like to get a good comparison of them from you guys. Also, would anyone be able to give me a rough estimate on cost of the D136 and the Nuvera? I called a 3rd party seller and said I could get a D136 with 100,000-400,000 impressions on it for $27,000-35,000. I can tell you that is a huge savings over leasing a Nuvera.

And yes, I am looking into other companies, but I can tell you that I'm not impressed with any other companies sales men other than HP. They responded in a timely fashion. Canon has yet to responded after 2 months. Kodak called me back after a week or so and said they would send me information and call back, but that was about 2 months ago and have yet to hear anything. I stopped by and talked to a Ricoh salesman 3 weeks ago. He said they would pass it on to the right person and get back with me. I have yet to hear anything from them. And lastly, is Konica. I was really looking forward to seeing their machines and pricing as I have heard good things about them. I called and spoke with a salesman and he said he would get back with me. That was 2 months ago. I even called back a week ago and they said I would be contacted the next day. No one ever called. I understand these guys are busy, but It reflects very poorly on them with how long this has taken. Should I be expecting waits this long? Or am I just getting poor service? I would be averaging 350,000+ clicks a month so I would figure they would want to at least get in contact with me. Thanks guys!

We've replaced a 6155 and an original DocuTech 135 with two Nuvera 144's in the past year. The Nuvera description from lfelton is spot on. These machines eat up the work, and are much more reliable. We even print right to the edge often. Both purchases were under $40K for used from Xerox.

 

[AP90]

Thanks for the responses guys! It is a big decision that we are having to make with this, as it is going to be a big capital and time investment on our part.

Stickman, if you could, would you provide a little more info on the used nuvera's that you bought such as impressions that they had, was the service charge higher, was the click charge higher than a new machine? You don't have to provide numbers, just if they were higher or not. Or do you just do your own service and buy your own toner and avoid the click charge all together? I would feel WAY more comfortable buying a 40k machine vs doing a lease and the new price for it.

 

[Stickman42]

AP90 - We didn't price new Nuvera's (too expensive). We've always gone with used/refurbished from Xerox, and had them maintain the equipment. What we were able to do was get a lower click charge on the Nuvera's vs. the 6155/DocuTech. Right now we're paying .005 per click plus $1478/month base charge on each. That includes all supplies and 200K impressions on each. And if I am reading the total meter correctly, they came to us with only 2MM and 3MM impressions on them. Bottom line, we figure our ROI is under 2 years, our clients are very pleased with the image quality, and these things just run and run. Service tech is here much less often now.