Any Indigo 5600/7800 users out there?

[Disappointed]

Have had some samples of our work done on a 5600 and were really impressed, we currently run waterless offset but our runs are getting shorter and we also want more diverse substrates which we can't do on the Di.

The samples were really impressive, 100% colour match to our proof and done on our own stocks.

Any horror stories, things to look out for, success stories?

What sort of work are you running on it?

Any regrets?



Thanks

 

[PricelineNegotiator]

From what I understand, the service from HP is nonexistent, you have to service the entire thing yourself. If your operator decides to leave, then you're really hurting. Other than that, I've heard their pretty comparable to iGen's and the 1000i/800i, and even have wider gamuts.

 

[akalaray]

We are in the Los angles area, Service is great, could not be better We have been running two 7600 almost 2 years now. There are no horror stories. Did you get one shot? comes in when printing on vinyl substrates that stretch. You do need to maintain the presses, Your operators will need to be trained to maintain the presses.

 

[Disappointed]

HI,
not go the machine yet, we are at the testing and consultation stage.

Yes we would get the one-shot kit, we have ideas for plastics.

I doubt maintenance could be more stringent than our Di, which can seriously bite if you treat it badly

service has already been discussed and they [HP] advise us that in our area, 4 hour service is possible.

 

[AP90]

I don't have an Indigo, but I got numerous samples and sat through some long talks with HP.

First, the samples were amazing. They had a low shine to them for being toner based.

Second, it supports some thick media and lots of different substrates.

That's pretty much the only good I came away with from our standpoint with HP.

The bad (for us).

1. High click rate. They do have a tier system where the more clicks you use the less your click is. But you better have some super high volumes to justify that.

2. Maintainence. Closest tech was 2 hours away, but they seemed to really push that even though your on a click system with them, you pretty much do everything yourself. At least that's how they pitched it to us.

3. Cost to run. 3 phase power was not ideal. We have 3 phase, but knew it would cost a lot to run it, and if you want to make money you better be running it.

4. No online finishing. For you that might not be a big deal but for us we really needed it.

Overall the lease was going to be pretty comparable to our 1000i, but that didn't include finishing with HP. From my viewpoint, the only people who I can see justifying an Indigo are people who have high value applications (variable data, ect.). Good luck with your endevor. Id be remiss if I didn't say take a look at Xerox though. They can probably offer you what your needing for less than the 5600/7800 series indigo's.

 

[kdw75]

How does the Indigo do as far as printing smooth solids, such as Reflex? Can it match offset, or is it comparable to the Xerox Presses?

 

[RGPW17100]

We have 3 7800 indigos and 3 10K indigos. Starting up is a challenge. Service in our area is awesome plus our phone based support is very good. Biggest hurdle is getting an experienced operator. We are trained constantly to become mechanics and operators. I am level 2 where my three 10000 presses are only allowed to have 4 service calls quarterly and because of the two years of running them and the support from my techs my press down time is pretty minimal and seldom do I use the 4 service calls quarterly. Having an inexperienced operator the first 6 months can be a real challenge.

 

[Disappointed]

Thanks, it sounds pretty much like the Di we run now, a lot of the issues are fixed by the operator (me) either alone or with telephone assistance. I think at the end of the day, the only decision we make is based on cost, quality is there, colour is there, range of substrates is way beyond what we can do now, support in our area is supposed to be good, just a matter of TCO probably.

Can i ask what sort of work you are putting on your range of machines?

 

[Disappointed]

Not a lot of users then

 

[Disappointed]

Still looking into this

One crucial point for us is that printing on uncoated stocks comes out looking flat like offset does - dry toner based systems usually look satin or shiny which is not good for us.

Is the indigo still the only liquid toner based process machine? This seems to be the secret i think.

The major hold-back for us is the massive cost vs our low-ish print volumes, these are what is making the choice that much harder.

 

[arossetti]

iGen has a matte toner option, but an iGen is in the same price range as an Indigo so not sure if that actually helps.

 

[axelmk]

Dear Disappointed, we have had our HP Indigo for 10 years now, first a 5000 and we upgraded to our 5600 a year ago.
We Love the quality, Solids are really good overall. there is a limitation on the Series 2 presses where at 3/4 of the page you might see a slight Not uniform mark. It is not on every color and it is only noticeable on heavy solids.

Our 5600 has 6 color installed, including white +1 spot color.
HP is the only press where you can run the Spot PMS colors, it does a fantastic job.
One shot option works great and is a must if you are to run plastics and synthetics.
Heavy substrate works great, for us the limit is 18 pt but there is an option for up to 24 pts.
THE 3 color option works amazingly well, I was doubtful at the beginning thinking it was just a Sales trick, but I was wrong we are using it more and more for many jobs.
It saves you money and time.

As for Service, You DO need a reliable operator but your DI operator should be able to learn fairly quick. we trained ours and two years later we do not regret it.
Service is great in our Area (Houston) but your operator will solve 80% of the problems on his own (when Trained) or over the phone.
We rarely need to have an actual technician here. maybe twice or three times a year.

As for Clicks, Yes they are not cheap and they are proud of their product. We negotiated a flat 3 year deal with no increases during that period.

Quality is definitely the best I've seen. We love it.

Axel

 

[Tim-Ellis]

Hello,

We are in Northamptonshire. Drop me a message if you'd like to visit our 5600. Half of what we print is on uncoated stock. HP Electroink still seems to be the best rival for offset ink on uncoated boards.

Come over and run some tests.

Solid blocks of colours are often a challenge as the press still suffers from banding. Tech support is good but the better your operator is the easier you will find it.

At the end of the day you need the volumes to pay for the clicks and for the machine. You'll need a plan for how you are going to win the business. Variable data and personalisation is where you can position yourself so think long and hard as to how you can make that work for you.

 

[Disappointed]

Thanks for the info and offers, much appreciated.

In view of the clicks and lease etc, I'm not sure it will ever happen for us - we are in-plant only, we have the Di but as we have less to print these days it suffers from the inactive period between workloads. Our runs are shorter now which makes getting consistent colour very hard from run to re-run, general wastage goes up for make-ready and losing dried ink from tins etc, its just not getting the the work it used to.

We can't really send stuff out as we need to get consistent colour management, fast return and short run - everything a trade printer hates! Sort of stuck in the catch-22 area at present. I would like to go indigo and take in outside work but that requires getting upstairs on-board and they are just not keen on getting back into trade print etc. ( We used to do it 30+ years ago )

I think the Indigo would be ideal from the machine/productivity POV but not from a cost/workload POV, it's slower so will spread the work out better, we can do shorter runs so not have to have a warehouse full of printed stock (we sell a massive range of printed craft designs) I could do one-off runs and test jobs easier, and so-on.

Tricky times.

 

[DannyB]

If it is absolutely imperative that you have the best quality variable prints at the fastest possible speed. Than i believe indigo is for you. But if not you may want to look at something a step down from that. Indigo is expensive to run and you do need to have trained people to run them and training can get costly. I am an operator on a 7600 and my company is currently looking at other options. not because the machine cant get the job done. Because it gets it done to well and at a high cost. I am sitting here typing this right now and searching the internet for other options because there is no work on my machine. There is work in-house but nothing that my uppers want to pay that cost for.

 

[rsands]

DannyB what options are you considering? iGen level or a step down again from that?

We are looking at an Indigo at present for personalised photo work but the iGen has larger sheet size and thats a big plus. We definitely don't have the required volumes yet but we have to have the best quality available or closest too.

 

[Disappointed]

Interesting, thanks.

The big issue with seemingly all other digital machines is that they cannot reproduce litho quality on UNCOATED stocks - they all come out with that toner gloss finish and we can't use that.

The Indigo's liquid toner seems to print pretty much identical to offset.

 

[DannyB]

DannyB what options are you considering? iGen level or a step down again from that?

We are looking at an Indigo at present for personalised photo work but the iGen has larger sheet size and thats a big plus. We definitely don't have the required volumes yet but we have to have the best quality available or closest too.

We are currently looking at the canon c1000 but more recently i have become interested in the ricoh9110. But that is early stages and I don't know anything about the ricoh brand.

 

[DannyB]

Interesting, thanks.

The big issue with seemingly all other digital machines is that they cannot reproduce litho quality on UNCOATED stocks - they all come out with that toner gloss finish and we can't use that.

The Indigo's liquid toner seems to print pretty much identical to offset.

Yes that is going to be a problem the indigo uses a completely different printing process than all other brands. They have a patent on what they call electroink which is closer to offset ink than toner. Also another big difference is that the indigo is set up like a offset machine in that it is not belt fed like most other digital machines it uses grippers and it has a plate cylinder a blanket cylinder and an impression cylinder just like and offset.

 

[Disappointed]

Yes that is going to be a problem the indigo uses a completely different printing process than all other brands. They have a patent on what they call electroink which is closer to offset ink than toner. Also another big difference is that the indigo is set up like a offset machine in that it is not belt fed like most other digital machines it uses grippers and it has a plate cylinder a blanket cylinder and an impression cylinder just like and offset.

Yep, it's a big point for us, we really need that offset appearance but every time we cost it up, the Indigo bites me in the arse because of the massive cost involved.