Canon 7000

[digital user]

We've had a 7000VP installed since last August. It replaced an original NexPress. The amount of downtime we're experiencing is unacceptable. Canon tells us that the engine is designed for a maximum of 300,000 8.5 x 11 sides per month. We exceed that. Have had ongoing problems with yellow unit resulting in downtime / bad quality. Our impressions between maintenance calls is between 20,000 and 30,000. Is our experience common?

Edited by: Eric Delzer on Apr 17, 2008 5:58 PM

 

[lebox97]

Re: Canon 7000

that seems pretty low.
- when you say "canon" do you mean the local dealer?

Make sure you get Canon (manufacturer) service engineers involved.

 

[Gemon]

Re: Canon 7000

Yep, thats about right. I have 2 of them and my experience is that we have an engineer in every day and on the occassions that the engineer does not come in we have toner drops on the sheet or fading on the edges of the sheet.

 

[Craig]

Re: Canon 7000

Trust me when I say this. I feel (or have felt) your pain!

I went through this with a CLC4000 for 3 years, at one point I had 2 different regional service techs in from Chicago and they were worthless! I even had conversations with Janet Cain and her reply was get a 7000! After 12 years and 7 Canon machines I have turned away from the dark side and own a Xerox DC8000AP and will NEVER go back to Canon! The service and support is impeccable, just yesterday I called my tech. only to see how he was doing, since I have not seen him in a month! With Canon I had service in my shop on average 2 to 3 times a week!

Good luck, I hope you have better results than I had with Canon, mine was almost turned over to our lawyers before if was finished.

Edited by: Craig Hofer on Apr 23, 2008 6:32 AM

 

[jlind]

Re: Canon 7000

Eric:
What made you choose a Cannon over the NexPress? I thought the samples that they were printing at Graph Expo looked pretty good, and the price was attractive. However, aside from selling more color copiers than anyone else, they were not in the pantheon of iGen, Indigo, and NexPress. It appears that the hardest element to determine, before purchase, is "up time" of the machine. Like the early Indigo's, perhaps they should sell you two of them. Another forum you might want to check out for digital is DICE. Maybe there's some relief there...
John Lind
Cranberry Township, PA
724-776-4718

 

[Dave Lambert]

Re: Canon 7000

I purchased a Canon C7000 3 weeks ago, so far we've run approx 80k on it. We are getting our "training" on how to run it tomorrow and Thursday. So far it's been pretty good to us considering we've had no training. The service reps really need to be better trained, for the couple of problems we've had the come in scratch their heads and start making phone calls. They don't seem to have a clue about this machine.
I must say I'm very impressed with the quality, our clients like it much more than the IGen3 output. The booklet maker is a great addition, too bad it doesn't have a 3 side trim only the lead edge. I'm also waiting on the release of the perfect binding attachment. I'm hoping we can push it past the 300k duty cycle without the issues I'm reading about...time will tell. So far I'm very happy with the printer...service will have to get up to snuff.

 

[FasterMD]

Re: Canon 7000

We've had our Canon 7000 for less than 7 months.

In that time we've experienced and learned quite a bit about our machine:
1. Getting consistent reliable color from one day to the next is impossible, regardless how many times you calibrate the machine. Having a machine operator who knows how to compensate for this is mandatory.
2. The machines are extremely good and consistent.....when they want to be. We've had runs of +10,000 impressions with full coverage 12 x 18 4/4 where it never had a single problem.
3. When it comes to solid colors the machines are incredible.....when they want to be.
4. The machines need to be in a tightly controlled environment. Our shop is cold and dry one day, hot and humid the next. Trying to keep color consistency with these new machines requires consistent atmosphere.
5. Due to poor sales our machines are not being used anywhere near capacity. That being said we see our techs at least twice a week. We do not consider this acceptable. Most of the time the machine is being called in for quality issues. My belief is that a majority of these problems are a result of the environment and a general lack of training of our operator. Until I see our machine in a stable environment with a trained operator, it's hard to say what the causes are for our problems.
6. Setting the paper catalog settings correctly for your stocks is extremely important for quality.

Eric, you are not alone in your frustrations.

 

[yogesh]

Re: Canon 7000

we have installed last year machine is already done more than 300000 copies and its doing extremly well,we are very happy with the performance of the machine

 

[yogesh]

Re: Canon 7000

I have been in the printing industry from past 25 years, the first color print engine I have used CLC series .my customer were very happy in quality of printing and color gamut handling, when market demands high end print engine,

I have tried many venders print engine. I had bitter experience in color consistence and color gamut handling, engine life deigns & break downs? I have lost my clientless

Now I had brought 5 “Canon C7000vp print engines. ” I had already printed 30 million impressions. I can compete with offset print industry and photo print industry in term of quality and color consistence. People are come back with confidence. That my profit.

 

[Craig]

Re: Canon 7000

Something doesn't add up with that post! ?:| If I did the math correctly all 5 7000's would have to have run for over 1,400 hours to achieve that, if you only ran letter size paper simplexed. I may be wrong but the release date in the US was late September-ish. That would mean if all 5 machines were installed at the same time they would have to have run for 8 hours a day non-stop for 175 days to get that yield. I doubt ANY brand can run that long, everyone needs down time for PM's. Not to mention each Imagepress would have to run 857,142 impressions a month, almost 3 times the recommended monthly duty cycle.

Sounds like a lot to ask for a mid-volume machine, maybe an iGen or Nexpress could get those volumes, my DocuColor 8000AP is faster then the Imagepress, and I don't think it would come close to doing that volume on a month to month basis. If your numbers are correct, you can be thankful you have redundancy cause you'll be crashing one of them soon. If they are anything like my old CLC's when they hit the wall they were down for several day's at a time.

 

[ASM]

Re: Canon 7000

I agree, the post from Yogeesha is questionable, maybe he means 3 million? Or maybe he's with Canon in India?
There is NO WAY you can exceed the 300,000 duty cycle to that degree and get away with it.
Please explain Yogeesha?

 

[Ace Design Studios]

Re: Canon 7000

We have had similar problems with our Canon 7000. It seems like the tech guy is here all the time. The quality is excellent, when the machine works though, and our customers are really impressed with the quality of the printing. Loading paper is easy, very few jamming problems have been encountered, but the main thing wrong with the machine is the consistency of the printing.

I go from one job, leave the room, get a new file from a customer, come back and the brightness of the ink is not there, or the thing is dropping toner on the page. Whatever the case is I feel like I am the one who is doing everything wrong, but I guess from reading these reviews it must be the machine.

It drives me nuts though because my boss and my sales reps look to me when the quality is not there and I tell them there is nothing more I can do besides call the tech guy to come in an have a look at the machine. At least I'm not alone out there on this topic.

 

[rcreveli]

Re: Canon 7000

Are people having the same problems with the Kodak rebadge of the machine the M700. I was in Rochester the other day and they went on about how they re engineered the machine and added the ORC concepts from the NexPress. Just curious if it works better.

Ray

 

[Craig]

Re: Canon 7000

From my understanding when I was looking at the 7000 and M700 they both have the same ORC's from the Canon factory. Canon at the time I was in the market said their ORC program would be introduced at a later date, once they had the internal details worked out. Kodak wanted it from the launch since it was working well in the NexPress line. If you open up a Canon machine there are several parts with color tabs on them that designate the ORC's (that's what they told me at the demo).

After reading the posts on this thread, I am glad I made the decision to go with the Xerox DC8000AP. The only issue I have had is the fuser ran out of oil because the sensor was clogged. I have gone from having a service tech. here 2 to 3 times a week, to once a month and most of those are PM or consumable parts that I can't change related.

If I were in the shoes of you folks who are having problems I'd skip over any middle man and go right to the top of the Canon food chain to Janet Cain. She emphatically told me that the support for this machine was going to be the best Canon had yet to offer, that this was a true production press that was to go head to head with Xerox and Kodak, and they would have the things in place to make sure it would happen.

Did you guys get a customer expectations document when you had an install? The copy they gave me states on page 36 reads that the C7000VP should deliver 95% uptime if you use Canon parts, the instillation environment meets their specs. service is provided by an authorized Canon dealer, you use Canon approved media and the MPV falls within the optimal performance range. It may be worth a shot to wave that in their face to see what they will do about it. But you'll probably get the same response they gave me, that it is printing within they specifications (which they will NOT share with you) and you basically have to live with it.

 

[ASM]

Re: Canon 7000

Extract from Craig's post:
"She emphatically told me that the support for this machine was going to be the best Canon had yet to offer, that this was a true production press that was to go head to head with Xerox and Kodak, and they would have the things in place to make sure it would happen."

ROFL!!!!!!!!

How about a certain Canon (professional photographic) product that's out there in big numbers that even the techs in Japan can't fix?

Don't fall for the corporate hubris - all 'copier' companies are the same when they try to take on commercial printing.

 

[ian]

Re: Canon 7000

I agree with the guys above.. when it comes to graphic arts canon is notorious for bad service. We have 3 canon 3200 with signed service contract of 10 cents for colour, they came to us last may and canceled the service contract with 30 days notice. They increased our click charges of 16 cents. We tried to cancel the lease on the machine and they wouldn't do so, we ended up getting a Xerox 6060 and a Xerox 242 to do the work. The canons sit idle unplugged collecting dust until the lease is finished.

They have done this to 3 other printers I know, there is a fineprint on the back of the agreement to void anything you sign on the front.

The canon 7000 might be a good machine but watch out for the consequence of service and the after effects. Since we switched to Xerox it was the best thing we ever did, service is 300% better. The xerox is up an running in 4-5 hours, where in the canons would be down for 1-3 days depending on the problem.

If you are going to buy a canon make sure you get a lawyer involved with the service agreement.

ian

 

[color me blind]

Re: Canon 7000


What can I add about the Canon 7000.................hummmmmm..............it is marketed as the Cadillac of Digital Color..............LMAO
On the contrary, this machine has issues upon issues, actually we need service on a daily basis. Color changes from day to day regardless of how often you calibrate it. Banding is a big issue and the smoothing feature within the RIP is useless.It is amazing to me that the technicians knowledge of this machine is a joke. I think they went to 'Evelyn Wood Speed Training School". Everyday it is a different problem and they are calling the engineers and installing patches on the software or uninstalling the software they installed 2 days ago. The machine often gets stuck and the touch screen does not work nor does the fiery so we have to do a hard shutdown and cross our toes that we do not lose any information. Actually what happends is the job will duplicate itself on the fiery rip...........

Today we are experiencing spots of magenta toner across the output. This happens at least once a week. So they will be in to replace the developer or something else and have the machine out of service for hours. The only time the machine is consistant is when IT IS NOT RUNNING..................:_|

 

[Craig]

Re: Canon 7000

All I can say is that my experience with Canon is that they are not willing to admit something is wrong, and less willing to fix it. When I still had my CLC4000 my click charge was .07 per click. My Salesman from Gordon Flesch told me that service alone was costing them .10 per click and that was before supplies were taken into account. It was costing them more than .03 per click just to keep it running!!!

Just keep calling service and start calling everyone you can from Canon and get a lawyer! Cut out all the ads in the trade magazines and show them to your sales person and ask them why they are advertising lies!
Tell Canon you want a new machine, and will keep throwing the CED in their face. Get CANON service engineers to your shop, not just your local guys, go over their head.

I hate to say that life is much smoother on the Xerox side of the fence, but our DC8000AP has been 180 degrees of Canon. Xerox is night and day from Canon, this machine just keeps on running, less than 2 delta E in color shift. Service is once a month, instead of 3 times a week.

It took me 2 years to get out of my lease with Canon, and that was through a buy-out and negotiated pay-off with Canon financial, it's tough and it sucks that you are made to be the bad guy, but don't let them get away with it. Send Canon all the stuff you can, including the information from the forums. Try to get a hold of other owners to complain as a group. Take your print samples to places like GraphExpo and throw them out for others to see and put them under the same crap you are with your customers. After all Canon isn't who your customers are complaining to... it's you!

 

[Dave Lambert]

Re: Canon 7000

We have now had our C7000 for almost a month. We've run just over 150,000 imps on it. Service has been called twice, not once for copy quality. We get consistent quality from page 1-xxx. I'm still very very happy with this digital color printer. We run everything from regular PDF's to postscript written by our programmers for fully color statements. We have gotten this volume without even trying to market this new product. Maybe the fact we have a graphic arts department helps, since they know color and the software. As for one comment on the smoothing feature...we find it gives amazing results.

 

[JFortune]

Re: Canon 7000

The Canon C6000VP just won a very prestigious award:

LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., March 11, 2008 – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in document imaging and office solutions, is proud to announce that the Canon imagePRESS C6000 digital press received the Best of Show Award in the Process Color Digital Printing Equipment category at this year's third annual ON DEMAND Best of Show Awards.


Building upon the success of its revolutionary imagePRESS C7000VP digital press, at this year's ON DEMAND Expo, Canon expanded its line of digital presses with the introduction of the imagePRESS C6000. The new imagePRESS C6000 provides entry level production environments a level of quality, speed and versatility never before available at such an attractive price point, making this press the best value in the market.

"We are proud to see the introduction of the imagePRESS C6000 already earning such prestigious industry recognition," said Tod Pike, senior vice president, Imaging Systems Group, Canon U.S.A., "The production printing space is a highly competitive field, but it's enjoyable when your products hit a home run the first time at bat."

I would be very careful about many of the reliability claims made on this site - it appears that Xerox sales reps are trying to post fraudulent information since they are extremely intimidated by the Canon's ability to:

Duplex 13 x 19.2" media on up to 15pt chrome coat
Polymerized ink which doesn't require fuser oil like production Xerox equipment (it is near impossible to UV coat or laminate output off Xerox)
The Canon uses a guide plate like a press to achieve registration front to back less than 1mm. Xerox is all over the place.

Canon would not of won this award if they didn't have a superior product