Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

[Propvpb3]

Two part question: (1) is it possible for aBizHub 6500 with a Creo IC-304 RIP to print pms spot colors? (2) If so, where can I find information or training on this issue?

We have had a lot of success running short run full color jobs on our BizHub 6500. What we have not been able to do is to get the output to come close to PMS spot colors. This means that we cannot migrate some jobs (one and two color jobs etc.) that were run on other presses before to the BizHub. Looking through the Creo interface, I see that it does have a "spot color" feature but just don't know how to use it or where to find information. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!

 

[MisterFuhrman]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Your C6500 prints with the four process toners: cyan, magenta, yellow, and black. Some (and I'd venture to say most) PMS spot colors do not translate perfectly into CMYK. You should grab a spot to process swatch book from your ink vendor and see how far some spot colors wander when converted to CMYK.

Bottom line is this: if your client is very color sensitive for branding purposes or whatever reason, stick the job on a press. If that's not an option, give them a sample of the job and see if the color is acceptable.

 

[Propvpb3]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Thanks for the response. We actually just want to come close or at least see how close it can come. I realize that the BizHub tries to simulate a spot color through CMYK, and that the results are rarely good. My question is actually a simpler one -- how do you tell the creo, for example, that the two colors in this file are PMS 165 and PMS 304, do your best?

 

[Propvpb3]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Just to follow up and clarify -- the Creo has a feature called "Spot Color Editor." I am trying to figure out how you use this feature to have the RIP try to build the PMS Spot color through CMYK?

Thanks, again, for any help.

 

[correcthue]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Hi Vincent,

I understand that you "get" that the system cannot print all Pantone spots, but you want to adjust them to be a little closer to what the Pantone reference book shows. What you want to do is this... First, make sure that your system has been calibrated properly. Next, go to the Resource center, spot color editor, select the spot dictionary for they Pantone type... Coated, Uncoated, etc. Find the color that you wish to adjust in the list and click on it. Next, make subtle adjustments to the CMYK mix as you might when mixing a process color in a design app. The screen tries to show a representation of the adjustment, at least in relation to itself. Now, make sure your document calls out the spot color as a spot color and is named using the same name as the pantone name. You should be able to make slight adjustments in order to make your customer happy. The adjusted spot color gets moved to the Custom Dictionary list and will take priority over the unedited spot.

Keep in mind... you don't want to adjust your spot definitions away from the color of the reference Pantone books. Your goal should always be to make the printer give you results that are as close to the Pantone chart as possible. If your customer doesn't want the color, have your customer pick a color they do like. One other thing... the Creo comes with a postscript document of the Pantone Coated library. I suggest once you have your machine calibrated, print the entire book out and use that for customers to pick from.

Good luck!
Evan

 

[Propvpb3]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Awesome! That was exactly what I was looking for . We'll give it a try and see how it goes. I'll put up another post if I encounter a problem. Thank you.

 

[DigiScott]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Vincent,

The advice that Evan has given is right on the mark and is exactly what we suggest to our customers. If I can add one thing. The Creo will only apply the changes you make to spot colors when it rips the file. After you make the change to the the color using the spot color editor you must either re-send the file, or if it is being held at the Creo in the store area, right click on the file and select "back to original" this will return the file to its native state and then right click again and select "submit". The Creo will then re-process the file with the changes made to the spot color.

Scott

 

[Propvpb3]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Thank you for the additional information. We are going to give it a try.

 

[sorrentomesa]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

All of the previous advice is excellent and right on the mark. One other very important item to note:

The IC-304's PMS spot editor is very specific as to whether its is C or U. So, when you build your file with spot color and want the CREO to recognize and adjust, you must build your file all with PMS XXX C or PMS XXX U. Then if you have to make any adjustments in the spot editor, make sure you adjust the appropriate color (C or U). If your file has mixed Cor U elements in it, the CREO spot editor will only alter the elements containing the specific tag.

I might also mention that the manual for the IC-304 goes into good detail about adjustments in the spot editor. If you don't have the manual, a PDF of it can be found on your original IC-304 software DVD's.

And as mentioned previously, the file must be re-ripped after every adjustment in the spot editor to see resulting changes, and once saved, that particular spot color will be in there so you won't have to go through any adjustment process for that particular color int he future.

The color gamut on the IC-304 - 6500 is far beyond what can be attained with process color on an offset press. We have been able to make almost every PMS color, no matter the brightness of the color (oranges/blues) come out as almost perfect PMS matches. You will not be hindered to a smaller gamut as indicated with Pantone's Bridge guide, that is for offset only.

S.

 

[Duncan at Océ]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Of course the easiest way to do this is to buy Creo's DigiWiz. Then using your spectrophotometer you can create ICC profiles and be assured of coming as close as possible to your press.

 

[Propvpb3]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

Where can I find information on Creo's DigWiz.

Also, I may post a new thread for this question but: does anybody know if I can use 1 Creo IC-304 rip with two C6500s?


We were considering purchasing a second C6500, but the one available has a Fiery RIP. I am worried about learning a new RIP and also quality differences between the two C6500s with different RIP.

Thanks

 

[Skip]

Re: Color issues with a Creo IC-304 on a C6500 -- Please help!

I agree with all of the above & have some additional info:
I'm on Mac & use Quark a lot.

Keep the name of the color exactly the same everywhere, (case, spaces, whatever) - you can call it Joe's green if you want.

You need to keep telling the computer you're wanting spot - like where the color is created, in Creo, and wherever it may say
"print as CMYK + SPOT" as opposed to only CMYK!

Sometimes I like to change the spot formula (maybe a logo in Illustrator ) only - NOT THE NAME, to some weird, obviously
wrong color by kicking one of the sliders to zero. Then if I see that weird color on the output, I know i've missed something
because it's printing out as process instead of spot.

When using spot, the settings for brightness, gradation etc. in Creo are of no effect, altho other pms colors in the file that are
specified as process will change.

Don't forget you have to do the "back to original" thing every time you make a change in the custom dictionary under Spot
Color Editor (- no big deal).

 

[Gene Glass]

You can find information on the Wizard Digital on Creo's site now. You can even download a demo file.

You can't run 2 printers with one IC-304.

 

[CopyMonkey]

All of the replies here have been right on. The Spot Editor has saved me many a time.

Are you printing from InDesign? The reason I ask is because there is a feature in the Ink Manager that lets you convert all spots to process. We mainly use the feature because for certain jobs if there is a drop shadow on an object when we print there is a funky box around that object. When you turn on all spots to process, it eliminates the box. However, if you have it turned on you will find it very difficult to manipulate spot colors, even ones you had already adjusted for.

Also- we started using our 6500 about a year and half ago. Gradually our reds started to look not so red, but more orange. Your machine may be newer, but if you start to experience this there is an updated color registration assembly that makes a world of difference.

Good luck!