Hello InkjetCTP_waste_of_money.
My profile does state I work for Glunz & Jensen, &my nickname being iCtP hardly disguises that either.
However, I am not in sales, otherwise I may have the sense not to answer this.. But, as I come from R&D and Support I will dive right in...
The reason for this, is that your post is great from my perspective. I think you have covered many salient points that are weaknesses we saw many JetPlate customers struggle with these, & I think if the truth be told we made some of those errors 4 years ago ourselves. But, when we set out to launch the second generation we were given a design spec, a wish list if you like... & reading your post, makes me smile as it is almost exactly the design spec we were set out to solve.
Therefore, although I doubt I can convince you otherwise, but I would like to correct some of the assumptions you have made, which may be based on alternative vendors or past technology but I fear is less accurate today in relation to Glunz & Jensen systems. However, I also think you raise some excellent points.
Therefore; InkjetCTP_waste_of_moneywrote
After 1-3 months you WILL get a head clog.
[iCtP] You may do with some systems, but this was a key design area for G&J when developing their 2nd gen machines. Cleaning fluids run in the 6 unused channels, & we have not changed a single print head in the last 18 months. IN ANY of our 2nd generation PlateWriter 2000, or 2400 systems. This is fact not fiction.
You WILL spend on average over $10.00 per plate over the life of the system until you sell it or trash it. (Keep a log)
[iCtP] I have heard similar from users of alternative systems, & indeed I think in the early days G&J had similar issues, we replaced FOC many consumbles for customers to make sure we delivered what we said we could do. We resolved that problem, although we recognise alternative vendors still struggle.When we set out to deliver the second generation we were concious of the bills we incurred in the early days for FOC consumables.
However, this is a relevant point & whilst we at G&J may be a larger more established company which needs to deliver on promises - there are less scrupuless companies outthere, so I think the idea of keeping a log is a good idea. Note: the running costs of a G&J PlateWriter, are calulated using the real amount of ink depleted by the CHIP on the side of the cart, plus the cost of maintenance.
You will need to change the channel to one of the other colors which will cost you about half of a new $200-$400 cartridge.
[iCtP] I can see from this, you refer to Jetplate . You will not fail the channels on the Glunz & Jensen PlateWrtier2000 or 24000. AND the reason I know you refer to Jetplate is that you could not change channels on PW2000/2400 system from G&J as the firmware is custom developed, & only fires from channels 1 & 2 on the PW2000. It is not necessary to implement the ability to switch channels on G&J systems. therefore no waste on the ink carts like you say..
You WILL waste 1 out of 4 plates (If your lucky) due to a print issue on the plate.
[iCtP] Well I am guessing that is a Jetplate issue too, & relates to the inability to print correctly if you have touched the plate before imaging, or smudges the wet image after imaging before it reaches the processor, or a problem in the processor, like on the scrub brush.
Wilth the G&J system, the image is dry when it has been printed, so you can't smudge or damage it, there is no processor, and no scrub brush. I think a G&J user would be unlucky to have this problem.
You will NOT get the posted number of impressions either of these companies are stating, more than 40% of the time.
[iCtP] Hmm another interesting statement. I think 50,000 impressions for the JetPlate or the first generation G&J systems does require a good clean press set up. But, when G&J moved to the second generation systems, they started using a much more robust diazo based ink carrier, which they quote 50,000 for, and in my opinion you would have to be doing someting real bad not to acheive this, we have reports upto 300,000. And G&J now has OEM's branding thier iCtP systems, some running over pressure presses and such like... these OEM had tested and spect their derivates at 75,000. So, I certainly think purchasers of a system should check this out, and if necessary ask the supply to make a live set of paltes for a long run and test. But, I doubt a series 2 G&J PlateWriter running the blue ink would struggle, we have number of customers that run 10,000 per month, gum and store then rerun next month, some have done this for over a year with no issues.
You will NOT be happy after 3 months with these very troublesome systems.
[iCtP] Again, looks like a Jetplate time frame, most of the testimonials on our website for that reason are installs that are over 6 months established or in some cases 12 months. We had an article published recently I saw, where unknown to us, QuickPrinter visited one of our 2 year old customers and wrote about his experience.When the Glunz & Jensen PlateWriter 2000 & 2400 were developed we were looking to deliver these systems with varying warranty options to put peoples mind at rest in this area.
And from time to time we run promotions with a 2 year warranty inc. However, when those promotions are not running users can still opt to purchase them for piece of mind. The Jetplate legacy, and to some degree some of our first systems 4 years ago did create some issues, we spent alot on money correcting our issues, I know that others did not do the same, but please understand G&J is all about listening to the feedback and improving on it, so I fear you may be unfair with some of your passionate statements here and you may be aligning us too closely with Jetplate when we have made some very concious efforts not to deliver the issues they saw.
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These companies rely on Epson to improve their machines and then simply adapt shrouds, covers, etc to try to hide the true machine under the covers. Epson will NOT support these machines unless the Epson techs are LIED to; as soon as they find out you sent a metal plate through the machine the warranty is VOIDED,
[iCtP] Okay, now I know you have not had a G&J PlateWriter. We do not supply an Epson printer, we do not supply an Epson warranty, and G&J will NEVER ask you to call Epson.
We supply a Glunz & Jensen PlateWriter. We are Epson Integrators, and this is a clafication that sits inbetween OEM and Reseller. It means we do not buy off the shelf product, but we do buy part built product with small modifications like firmware ect and we build the rest in. Under this status this is considered the same as purchasing a subasembly and as such the manufacturere (G&J) is responsible for the warranty.
I would like to think your engine if you did purchase a PlateWriter would not fail inside the warranty period, but if it did then; either the dealership that supplied the system will come to service it, OR G&J will provide a SWAPOUT engine and simply replace the main engine. When we designed the 2nd generation systems, another key objective, was "the platewriter should not fail. BUT, if it does it must be up and running again ASAP". So, other than an extensive self maintenance system, the PW200 is a no tool dissasembly, front and rear tables click back, ink dryer lifts off, and the user lifts out the Imaging engine, we overnight a replacement, (charged with liquid dot so there is not cost implication), and the user repalces it... we pick up the defective unit. BUT let me say, this has only been invoked 3 times this year so far, so these things are working as G&J built them. However, I do think your point to readers is important. IF you are not considering a G&J system, watchout for the warranty. If you are told it is an Epson waranty and you don't use Espon Ink or you put plates through.. you may not have a warranty.
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Fellow Printers - If after reading this you are still wondering how "good" these systems are, do yourself at least this, check out the systems and do extensive research on them ....
- Ask to see a LIVE demonstration, either a trade show, bring the machine to you (At their cost), or fly you and your best pre-press employee to their demo center. This will allow you to see the machine in action first hand;Speed, quality, operation.
[iCtP] I think this is good advice. But I would add, given this posters clearly bad experince at some suppliers hands, try and ensure the site you visit is not a new installation, 3 months - 6 months + G&J would be happy to point you towards such customers.
- Ask for complete price lists for ALL consumeables, and about the availability of said consumeables, do not count on their word. Check out these suppliers for yourself. The only Kodak dealer is notorious for selling plates that are not even plates that work with these systems since... As for "RUSH" costs... figure on doubling your costs! Best practice, buy enough so that you do not run out and you can pay ground shipping prices, at least these prices are somewhat reasonable.
[iCtP] Okay, I guess you are back on the Jetplae track, yeap they sell direct, and yeap virtually no one stocks their stuff. And the Kodak thing must be Jetpalte, as G&J don't use Kodak plates.
A thing to reliase here, G&J has installed over 100 units in the last 6 months or so, over 300 in just over the last year. There is a number of dealers that hold stock. BUT, Just with ANY CTP solution you are going to incurr high RUSH deliver costs if you express anything.