Looking for software to organize pre-press files

[ricreis394]

Hello everyone,

I work in a medium size packaging company (20-25 people).
I'm the person who does all the jobs that later goes to offset machines,
but we have a large problem that is to organize our files.

Well, automation engine from Esko, is very nice and seems to be the software that I want, but there's one problem, it's too expensive, and I don't need everything in Automation Engine, but the major factor is the price.
I'm looking for a software that can handle the explorer, like creating folders and sub-folders automatically. It's like creating a new data, and the software just creates the folder depending on the number (sequential) and the name of the project, something like this.
The software must have the possibility to read the trimbox of documents, and make possible to create a report document, to print and give to other person inside the company, so that person can see all the details I already wrote.
The report must have the trimbox and the image of the packaging (document) essentially!

I already searched for softwares like Data Asset Management, but didn't found what I want,
I tried to search for a batch command that can create a list of folders with sequential number, but I don't think it's the better way.

I'm searching for this solution about 5 months ago, but it's very hard to find the right software for me.

I wish someone in this forum could help me
Thanks for reading my topic!

 

[johntheventer]

Im not sure if this might help - but I had a similar problem a few years back - also a small printing company (Digital) but we outsource a lot to Offset…

Eventually - I just booked each job into a system as it arrived before I even started working on it. I had no mandate from management and hence no budget for this - so everything I used had to be free. I used sugar CRM community edition - which is a free version of a database system that everyone can access through a web browser no matter if Mac or PC.

The idea is to "Log" or "Book-In" the job with all details, customers and yours, as it arrives before you work on it. You save the files once to directory on a central server, and you only update the "Logged in" job details as you or anybody makes changes.

The idea is you pass the "Job Number" along to the next person and not all the files - the files stay in the same place. All they need is a job number, they click on that job, see the instructions, see where the file is saved, and carry on.

Again, I might have grossly misunderstood you, but this is what I did - and it kind of worked.

 

[prepressdork]

Enfocus Switch might be able to help you with some or all of this.

 

[esmith214]

Check out Dalim's Twist and ES. They offer complete package workflow and asset management that may solve other issues for your company. They also offer simple single purpose workflows that can do exactly what you want at much lower cost.

 

[ricreis394]

Thanks everyone for the replies, I have seen all of yours softwares recommendations, but don't seem to fits in me.

I find one software called Elvis from Woodwing, and seems to fits my needs. What do you guys think about the software?
It's a DAM software, it has a lots of functions, like reporting and made search easy.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

ricreis394, some questions/comments:

What operating system, Win or Mac? On the Mac it appears that much of this can be automated/semi-automated with AppleScript and the core OS features.

Do you have a PDF workflow software system? You mention Esko AE, is this because you use other Esko gear? With say Kodak Prinergy, the whole system works on an Oracle database, which looks after automatically creating directories/folders etc.

Do you have a MIS/ERP system that is used to quote/create orders etc? How do you come up with job numbers etc?

How do you currently setup your folder/file structure on the server? A-Z folders, with clients in each, then projects in each client, then further sub folders etc?

How would your ideal software "know" how to automatically create folders and sub folders? What is the "trigger" that would make this happen? Is it that you always have the same parent/child folders with the same names, however the parent folder may use a sequential job number or name?

I agree with prepressdork that it sounds like a combination of Enfocus Switch and Enfocus PitStop server will likely handle the key points of your wish list. I would also look into Dalim’s offerings as suggested by esmith214.


Stephen Marsh

 

[ricreis394]

ricreis394, some questions/comments:

What operating system, Win or Mac? On the Mac it appears that much of this can be automated/semi-automated with AppleScript and the core OS features.

Do you have a PDF workflow software system? You mention Esko AE, is this because you use other Esko gear? With say Kodak Prinergy, the whole system works on an Oracle database, which looks after automatically creating directories/folders etc.

Do you have a MIS/ERP system that is used to quote/create orders etc? How do you come up with job numbers etc?

How do you currently setup your folder/file structure on the server? A-Z folders, with clients in each, then projects in each client, then further sub folders etc?

How would your ideal software "know" how to automatically create folders and sub folders? What is the "trigger" that would make this happen? Is it that you always have the same parent/child folders with the same names, however the parent folder may use a sequential job number or name?

I agree with prepressdork that it sounds like a combination of Enfocus Switch and Enfocus PitStop server will likely handle the key points of your wish list. I would also look into Dalim’s offerings as suggested by esmith214.


Stephen Marsh

Stephen, thanks for your reply.

I'm using Windows OS, not Mac.

I don't use any product from esko except the barcode one, The workflow we have is Kodak Prinergy to send files to ctp.

Yes, we have a MIS/ERP, we thinked about that, but our MIS/ERP doesn't have functions that I want, like reading the cf2 to see the trimbox of one job automatically, and create a report pdf, with the job pdf embedded.

My folder/file structure is like: Brand/Measures of the box/pdf file, I do not mention clients in our file structure because the same product can be for much clients, and sometimes I do not know if another client is purchasing the X product or Y. I know the original client, but not all ones.

I was testing filemaker v13, tried to make a layout and there's lot of good things in that software, but I saw things that it can't do. Like create a folder structure automatically, read cf2, and print/create report with pdf embedded. Atleast I think it can't do, I'm begginer in that software.
And yes, I want a job number. My idea was like having a number for each different brand for example "brand X summer 2013" and other number for "brand X summer 2014" and for each job just increment another value after the brand number. So, if the brand number was "1023" the file number could be "102325", This is only an idea, i'm open for suggestions.

I talked to a resellers of enfocus, and they said that enfocus wasn't what I need.

 

[chevalier]

You could create a filemaker solution, buy one off the shelf or have someone develop one for you. The costs wouldn't be nearly as high as AE.

Custom Business Solutions | FileMaker
Search | Made for FileMaker

 

[Stephen Marsh]

As I read over your post multiple times, I keep thinking that what you are really looking for (without knowing it) is a database driven CAD package - such as Impact from Arden Software (disclosure: I work for an Impact reseller, however the only reason that I mention the product is that it appears to address many of your pain points that were not initially obvious from your first post and my initial reply).

Impact – Arden Software


Stephen Marsh

Stephen, thanks for your reply.

I'm using Windows OS, not Mac.

I don't use any product from esko except the barcode one, The workflow we have is Kodak Prinergy to send files to ctp.

Yes, we have a MIS/ERP, we thinked about that, but our MIS/ERP doesn't have functions that I want, like reading the cf2 to see the trimbox of one job automatically, and create a report pdf, with the job pdf embedded.

My folder/file structure is like: Brand/Measures of the box/pdf file, I do not mention clients in our file structure because the same product can be for much clients, and sometimes I do not know if another client is purchasing the X product or Y. I know the original client, but not all ones.

I was testing filemaker v13, tried to make a layout and there's lot of good things in that software, but I saw things that it can't do. Like create a folder structure automatically, read cf2, and print/create report with pdf embedded. Atleast I think it can't do, I'm begginer in that software.
And yes, I want a job number. My idea was like having a number for each different brand for example "brand X summer 2013" and other number for "brand X summer 2014" and for each job just increment another value after the brand number. So, if the brand number was "1023" the file number could be "102325", This is only an idea, i'm open for suggestions.

I talked to a resellers of enfocus, and they said that enfocus wasn't what I need.

 

[chevalier]

I didn't read through this thread very well...

FM can create folder structures - you'll need to write script(s) for external containers. It's actually not as hard as it sounds.

As far as reading CFF2 files you'll have to write something that can read them and output a result. CFF2 files are plaintext and conceivably shouldn't be too hard to decipher.

Example of a CFF2 file:

BOF
V2
ORDER
END
MAIN,Cop05420
UI
LL,0.37500,0.49999
UR,35.47357,20.59370
SCALE,1,1
C,1a,4.64104,4.28252,270.00000,1.00000,1.00000
C,1a,17.12254,16.81118,90.00000,1.00000,1.00000
C,1a,31.20753,16.81117,90.00000,1.00000,1.00000
END
SUB,1a
L,0,1,1,-2.46748,-1.33740,-2.38874,-1.41614,0,0.00000
L,0,1,1,-2.38874,-1.41614,-2.38874,-4.26604,0,0.00000
END
$EOF

This is a guess but the lines:

LL,0.37500,0.49999
UR,35.47357,20.59370

Are probably the lower-left start point of the sheet size and upper-right end point of the sheet size. Calculating the size of the sheet would be possible via some basic triangle geometry.

 

[ricreis394]

As I read over your post multiple times, I keep thinking that what you are really looking for (without knowing it) is a database driven CAD package - such as Impact from Arden Software (disclosure: I work for an Impact reseller, however the only reason that I mention the product is that it appears to address many of your pain points that were not initially obvious from your first post and my initial reply).

Impact – Arden Software


Stephen Marsh

Stephen, Thanks for your reply, but I think Impact isn't what I want.

I want organize pre press files, like the artwork, not the cutter dies, I don't make dies.
We work with a company that makes that, so we don't need that much organization for dies.

In attachment there is one example that I want, that is one pdf with artwork embedded that has important information.


______________________

Chevalier, Didn't knew that cf2 was text based file, and now I understand that's easy, the trimbox is the "UR" line by the way.
Very thanks, I will try do something in filemaker.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Your OP mentioned “trimbox”, so I think that the forum thought that you were originally after a solution for PDF art, then it turned out to be CAD files - or perhaps it now .AI, .PDF and CAD?

You use Prinergy. Is it Evo or Connect/Powerpack? I am guessing Evo as you are talking about automatically creating folders.

Have you really looked into or asked your Kodak contact what is possible with Prinergy?

Of course, packaging dies are not always simple or symmetrical shapes, so are you are looking for the overall bounding area, width and height of the CAD file?

I could be wrong, however by itself, I don’t believe that the UR line is enough - you would also need the LL line to work this out.

A .CF2 of a simple 50 mm square:
LL,166.312,473.519
UR,216.312,523.519

A .CF2 of a 122 mm wide x 66 mm high rectangle:
LL,233.863,486.628
UR,299.863,608.628

I have not yet tested more complex shapes!


Stephen Marsh

 

[chevalier]

Stephen,

I only provided a snippet of a quick CFF2 that was laying around in a test folder. I not even sure if that CFF2 had the sheet size included. I just took a brief look to hopefully get ricreis394 on the path he needs to be to make the best decision for his platform. I learned about CFF2 being open text by fighting with Esko and ImpactCAD to get along. We really need a CFF3 to include folding instructions, materials specifications, etc. CFF2 is centered around the die making process and not the individual unit.

ricreis394,
A quick google search did find this document that pretty thoroughly explains CFF2 files.

 

[Paul Santer]

Stephen, Thanks for your reply, but I think Impact isn't what I want.

I want organize pre press files, like the artwork, not the cutter dies, I don't make dies.
We work with a company that makes that, so we don't need that much organization for dies.

In attachment there is one example that I want, that is one pdf with artwork embedded that has important information.
View attachment 4249

______________________

Chevalier, Didn't knew that cf2 was text based file, and now I understand that's easy, the trimbox is the "UR" line by the way.
Very thanks, I will try do something in filemaker.

As is common with Packaging Files, a lot of the important information is stored in the legend in a human readable form.
I think if this information was available as Meta Data within the file your requirements would be easier to achieve and with specific applications you could go far beyond meeting your basic requirements.

A good starting point with Meta Data and Adobe Products would be to take a look at the XMP overview Adobe XMP: Adding intelligence to media

I think it would also be beneficial for you to post your requirements on the Enfocus Crossroads Site.
Find solutions to automate your print workflow at Crossroads-world - Crossroads