Proofing Pantone Colors

[JudP]

Just wanted to get some input on proofing Pantone colors. Obviously the days of Chromilin and mixing powders is long gone and now most proofs are generated using Epsons or other ink jet devices and doing four color simulations of PMS colors but are there any systems out there that can proof true Pantone colors?

Jud

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Jud, with a "multi ink wide gamut" proofer such as the Epson x900 series, the Pantone simulation is not limited to the standard smaller press CMYK gamut when a good proofing RIP is used. Epson state that around 98% of Pantone colours can be reached with their Epson UltraChrome HDR Ink on good proofing paper.

Stephen Marsh

 

[JudP]

Thanks Stephan,

Yes, we have two 9890s but I'm looking to get even more accurate color to solid pantone colors.

Anyone have any experience with either Fuji's Final Proof or Kodak Approval?

Jud

 

[MacTwidget]

Fuji's FinalProof only utilizes the CMYK gamut.
Kodak's approval can reproduce a limited number of spot colors using its "Recipe Colors".

I've had an Epson 9900 for about six months now, being driven through RAMPage and ORIS // Color Tuner // Web.

It has 11 inks, two of them being Orange and Green. It won't hit every color, but it does better than any "dot" proofer I've ever worked with.

The Epson is really the best option to expand your gamut and include spot colors.

 

[ripit]

Judp
I have a Final proof it uses an eight color library but still has a smaller color gamut than the new Epson proofers on the market

 

[Stephen Marsh]

Thanks Stephan,

Yes, we have two 9890s but I'm looking to get even more accurate color to solid pantone colors.

The x900 series printers would give you a better chance for some colours, as they have orange and green inks.

It really depends on the inkset, paper and RIP.


Stephen Marsh

 

[chevalier]

Fuji's FinalProof only utilizes the CMYK gamut.
Kodak's approval can reproduce a limited number of spot colors using its "Recipe Colors".

Wrong. The FinalProof has 10 donors it can utilize to simulate spot colors. Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black, Blue, Green, Red, Orange, White, and Silver. I have found my FinalProof to do as good of a job if not better than my Epson 9900. The ability to produce proofs of metallic spot colors is a huge advantage. The ability to proof directly on substrate (including metallic foiled paper) is a huge advantage. The big drawback is the cost of the films, the machine, the limited output size (21" x 25" - larger items must be tiled) and the space and time it requires for operation. There is only one application to feed the FinalProof with it's proprietary PD Pro application. I have been told that the FinalProof is no longer being manufactured and that the software is no longer being developed but that Fuji intends to keep consumables available for a long time. A good RIP that outputs a compatible TIFF is also a must - I use ORIS.

The Epson 9900 has 11 ink channels Cyan, Light Cyan, Magenta, Light Magenta, Yellow, Green, Orange, Photo Black, Light Black, Light Light Black, and Matte Black. The proofer is excellent but really only as good as the RIP you feed it with and the paper you put into it. I use ORIS but GMG and EFI also have excellent solutions.

I also get proofs produced by Kodak Approval from various prepress houses and customers. The proofs are also excellent.

 

[wildcatt]

9900 with spectroproofer and EFI 4.5 - Pantones are really close.
I've been to a number of trade printers for meetings and they ALL use the Epson printers as well.

Calibration and curves are critical.

Take the time and spend the money to setup properly and you will be happy you did.

 

[Chief_1975]

As others have already stated x900 Epson is best bet at the moment however be warned that even with a good RIP (EFI or GMG) the tonal reproduction of some Pantone colours can be quite far away from printed reality and I am not talking just about dot gain.

If you are using tints of Pantone's on jobs then you will have to check against a printed target (we use Pantone tint books) and adjust where required.

 

[wildcatt]

As others have already stated x900 Epson is best bet at the moment however be warned that even with a good RIP (EFI or GMG) the tonal reproduction of some Pantone colours can be quite far away from printed reality and I am not talking just about dot gain.

If you are using tints of Pantone's on jobs then you will have to check against a printed target (we use Pantone tint books) and adjust where required.

Good point - thx for mentioning. Especially in lower percentage tints

 

[rich apollo]

Yes, we have two 9890s but I'm looking to get even more accurate color to solid pantone colors.

Inkjet proofers will get you about as close as you're gonna' get.

What are you trying to match - a swatch book or the L*a*b* values? You may need to change how the PMS colors are defined in your applications. Are you defining them by CMYK values or L*a*b*?

Your RIP may allow you tweak it's PMS look-up tables.

You might consider changing the paper you're proofing on.

Using ColorThink and your proofer profile you can find out if your proofing process is capable of hitting the colors you want.

As stated, you would have to go through additional steps to accurately proof PMS tints.

 

[lucascalvo]

Starproof packaging Option

Starproof packaging Option

For a Good PMS i will recommend add the a Epson 7900 a Starproof software that create dot proof and also allow you to calibrate automatically the Pantone with a Delta E under 2 on Delta E 1976 measure. That will allow you to match a good PMS with your epson plotter. We are working in a new solution to allow use actual paper stock on the Epson and work with Pantone. But is in beta in this moment. That will have PMS, CMYK, Dot Proofing and actual stock on Epson 7900 or 9900

 

[M&M Displays]

A good printer and rip will only take you so far. EFI's Pantone lookup table gives us so so results. What we have found that works great is..............Catzper

http://www.catzper.com/ISAPI/CATZperISAPI.dll/EXEC/0/01wpx1b09du02j19vfbkn0l3b2gx

Even then on every proof we make we put the disclaimer "This Is NOT A Pantone Matching Device, Please refer to your Pantone Guide for accurate representation of Spot colors

 

[Ed_]

Overprinting Spots and transparency effects are another concern for the standard inkjet printers even with the addition of Orange and Green. For the closest possible proof, a from film proof system that uses actual inks matched to the PMS color is what we use for proofing Pantone colors. The proof can be produced on the actual press stock.

 

[comholt]

Pantone matching

Pantone matching

Thanks Stephan,

Yes, we have two 9890s but I'm looking to get even more accurate color to solid pantone colors.

Anyone have any experience with either Fuji's Final Proof or Kodak Approval?

Jud

Jud – We have a fair amount of experience making Pantone colors (and tints) match on Epson printers. I can concur with the other respondents that the x900 series printers have the largest gamut around. With Epson proofing papers you should be able to hit 93-95% of the PMS colors. The good news is your 9890s are great printers as well, hitting 80%+ of the PMS colors. We’ve worked most extensively with the EFI XF family of RIPs. They have excellent “out of the box” spot color matching plus a very nice utility for building custom definitions.

Please let me know if you’d like to discuss further.

--Clark
Spectraflow