So, how's the 700s running?

[che.c]

Well, I feel like I've done this dance several times in the past, get a new printer, stick with the old etc - those aul 260s and 240s just keep soldiering on! However this time we've got two new reps joining, with proven track records and pushing the company forwards this year. Now the plan is basically drop the 240, stick in a 700 with a Pro-Fiery and see how it goes. Perhaps upgrade to 7002 or JetPress (quite a step.. but we'll see) down the line. As much as I'd like a C6000VP the support ain't good enough locally.

So the question for all you operators out there that have been running 700s for a while is, how's she goin?

I'm looking to find out a few major things here

• Time to 'bed in' So you upgraded, got the new machine. How long did it take to get back up to all-guns blazing production instead of mystified tending to infuriated head-scratching?

• Major issues, common flaws I've heard about bad FTB registration, bounce on heavier stocks, fuser issues and jamming issues. Anything else? You have any of these and get them resolved? If so, how long did it take? If you do have issues, what paper are you running, premium digital or repacked litho?

• How hard are you floggin it? What clicks have you put on the machine since you got it? How long did it take you to do that? We talking bond paper or business cards? How many hours a day do you tend to run? Graphic arts or government textbooks?

• Bob Marley tendencies Jamming? Much? Can it be trusted on a long run overnight? Much spotting on the drums appearing out of nowhere? Funny herbal smell and bloodshot eyes? Wait no.. forget that last one.

• Some details
- Hows the inboard outboard - are colours even across the sheet? Much retransfer on any colour in particular?
- How good is the registration with the hi-cap feeder?
- What about these decurlers I've heard so much about?
- How's it handle lightweight (<170gsm) coated stock?
- How's it handle >300gsm (bus card) coated stock?

I'm not asking for prices, click charges or any of that. Just wanna know what the other guys in the trenches think of the machine. No reps bigging the machine up/slamming it down, I know where you live

If you've got the patience to write it, I got the patience to read it, the more details the better. I'm currently running a 260 and a 240, so for anyone with experience of either of those and the 700, direct comparisons will be received well.

 

[Possumgal]

It took a while to get used to the 700 from the 240, especially in regard to the tray settings. No longer can I send a one-off proof to the Xerox and walk across the building to it and THEN put the paper in the tray. The biggest problem is with coated stock. You cannot leave it overnight running coated stock, no way. I usually sit by and babysit when ours is running coated. Any coated stock.
Colors are a little darker than on the 240 , especially reds and blues. They are pretty consistent, and the in-tray duplexing works out well.

 

[che.c]

Thanks for the info Possumgal, that's worrying news about the coated though! Out of interest, are you running a high-cap drawer-style feeder or printing from internal trays/bypass?

 

[Amer]

Went from DC250/Fiery to X700/Creo about a month ago.
Cons:
The biggest drawback is that the X700 doesn't print as well as the DC250 on special (textured) litho stocks. The coverage doesn't seem as full.
Also, heavy coverage on coated stocks peels off until the printer (fuser) warms up, after that it's OK.
Feeding coated stocks from the standard trays is almost impossible (misfeeds or double sheets). Luckily, I've got the OHCF which feeds it OK.
Pros:
Color uniformity is noticeably better, both on coated and uncoated.
Gradients are much better, though I attribute this to the Creo RIP.
FTB registration was off, but the tools allow you to get it right on (within 1 mm but be ready to lose a couple of hours and dozens of sheets until you get it right for various paper stocks and trays).
The decurler is the best new thing - 300 gr coated papers which curled horribly are now almost flat, which helps immensely when doing work and turn.
And finally, I like the Creo RIP much better than the Fiery.

 

[che.c]

Cheers for the info Amer, good to know about the textured stock, I'll still have the 260 to run that on though, so should be ok in the meantime. Pretty much what I expected to hear about coated feeding, as long as it's decent from the OHCF - what's sheet to sheet registration like out of it? I find the 260's a bit unreliable.

How much maintenance does it take to keep the FTB reg good? Also does coverage effect back-up much?

That decurler sounds like the biz though, will look forward to that.

How did you find going from Fiery to Creo? I was thinking of going with a pro Fiery RIP.

I've saved the best 'til last...

TONER PEELING?!!? How long does the fuser take to warm up? How many sheets of 300gsm we talking here?

 

[Amer]

TONER PEELING?!!? How long does the fuser take to warm up? How many sheets of 300gsm we talking here?

Anywhere from 10-50 depending on the environmental factors (temperature, humidity).
We told the Xerox rep we're not paying for them and now have them subtracted from the monthly click charge. We'll se what happens when summer rolls around.
OHCF: Feeding is OK for lighter stock, but repeatability is a problem with heavier stocks.

 

[X33]

I have a couple of Xerox 700s and have run coated stock with no issues at all; I have to say that the stock is Xerox though, so it's media for digital printing.

In my region, I see many customers running coated stock from Hammermill and Stora Enso (I think it was called Futura in the past) with no issues.

I'm wondering what brand of coated stock are you guys running. Can you provide that information?

 

[Amer]

I'm wondering what brand of coated stock are you guys running. Can you provide that information?

Symbol Freelife Satin by Fedrigoni.
Note: DC250 ran the same stock without any problems.

 

[X33]

Symbol Freelife Satin by Fedrigoni.
Note: DC250 ran the same stock without any problems.

are you sure that paper is for digital printers? It seems that it is for offset printing.

Note : the X700 is different from the DC250; the print engine, toners, xerographics, engineering are different.

 

[Amer]

are you sure that paper is for digital printers? It seems that it is for offset printing.

Of course it is for offset printing - that's what I said in my initial post.
But the DC250 did 300K clicks on it with no problems.

 

[Craig]

I will back up X33 on the paper issue. Try Futura, or Sterling Ultra Digital. We run ALL Futura on or 8000AP with zero problems. We have tried the cheaper route and it ended up giving us a swift kick in the but. Not only did we have CQ issues but we burnt through fusers at an astonishing speed! BTW Futura has performed just as good a the Xerox brand with out device.

 

[Keith]

...and I'll backup Craig on this one! We have a DC252 (and love it). We wanted a 700 but it was out of budget with our puny 10,000 sheets a month. I used to run Mohawk 50/10 coated because it worked well on our Xante. But not the Xerox. Solids were mottled and cloudy looking. I contacted both the supplier and mill and they said it was a manufacturing defect. I guess I got a bad batch of paper. Anyway, I switched to Endurance and solids are beautiful.

That sucks to hear about the 700 not performing well with textured socks as we are looking forward to a 700 in the future (mainly the decurler!). Again, perhaps it's the brand of paper you're using?

 

[X33]

That sucks to hear about the 700 not performing well with textured socks as we are looking forward to a 700 in the future (mainly the decurler!). Again, perhaps it's the brand of paper you're using?

probably.

again, I have printed on textured media (linen, canvas, etc) designed for digital printing in the X700 with no issues. Xerox sells it but I'm sure someone else has it.

 

[UberTech]

Textured stocks are a knightmare on 2nd generation machines (IBT based). First gen used to suck the toner thru the paper from the drum so you would get better result and the toner was probably bigger. Some stocks are ok but as a rule I wouldn't base a business on it.

 

[Possumgal]

We run from the regular trays, and our coated stock is offset, don't know which brand. When we have a tech out for a jamming issue, all I have to do is say "coated stock" and he rolls his eyes.......
So, I guess it's supposed to run coated, but in the real world, good luck.
Of course, if we had some climate control where the Xerox is installed, I bet it would be happier. <:

 

[Craig]

Of course, if we had some climate control where the Xerox is installed, I bet it would be happier. <:

Read the CED, it will state what the conditions need to be. If your conditions fall within the CED then your tech doesn't have a leg to stand on. If not you have problems.

 

[Stressed]

Thanks Xerox

Thanks Xerox

We've had a 700 for 5 months now and the machine is fantastic. Running about 100k a month on 100 - 300gsm. Not one paper jam, not one flaw, quality is superb (client actually accused us of printing his job litho but we hadn't)

Only problem is we haven't received toner for over a month and about to go out of business thanks to Xerox after sales service. Xrox will ignore your emails, calls and legal letters.

5 staff all married with kids on the dole in Feb. Thanks Xerox.

 

[che.c]

Hi Stressed, that's terrible to hear what's happening to you. Xerox really are callous b*stards, surely you can sue them for what they've done? Bet they're still chasing you for your lease payments too, right? Dirty wee b*stards.

Thanks for sharing the info on the machine as well, I will add it to the pile of evidence.

Methinks I'll be getting a toner supply clause put in the CED if we decide to go with 700.

 

[wildcatt]

Hey che.c - I'd take that toner clause 1 step further and make a "supplies" clause.
These machines - especially the 700s seem to be having some issues across the board.
Fusers, toners, drums... I'm waiting for a transfer roller that's been on order for over a month and a half. My Xerox tech is ready to quit.

That being said... the de-curler is great, registration is a challenge, but we can usually bring it back in line after some !@#$ about. Overall - I 'm happy with the performance. I'm not happy with the back end, supplies and parts.

We run about 75k per month and a lot of that is at night - unattended. Coated text, Cover and offset. I can usually count on a full hiCap being empty in the morning.

 

[che.c]

Cheers for the input wildcat, your machine usage sounds very similar to what I'd be seeing a 700 doing in our place.

I will make sure there's a clause in the CED about components as well as consumables - glad you mentioned that.. transfer rolling going is basically quality down the tubes and in the end that costs customers.

Haha reg sounds the same as the 260 then... Running booklet sections I now end up doing them a chunk at a time and adjusting reg between! Well, I guess that's par for the course with the high-end office stuff.


Roll on the 5002.. Preferably in time to get one instead of a 700