Struggling with color. Help?

[chad.trent]

We are currently using a HP Z6100PS to print onto gloss adhesive material to create packaging mockups. We are struggling with getting good color from the machine, especially with PMS colors. I realize that a printer will never get 100% Pantone accuracy, but I have to believe it can get closer than it's getting now.

I have tried every profile and every setting I can find and nothing gets anywhere close on color. I can convert the PMS colors to CMYK and tweak the percentages and eventually get close to the color we want, but it's never very accurate, and that process is incredibly time consuming.

We are primarily an Illustrator workflow (Mac OS), so we print directly from Illustrator. We could print from other software if necessary, but would ideally print from Illustrator.

So, I guess I'm asking what I should do next to get close on color. We have talked about adding a third party RIP and tried a demo version of the RTI/Harlequin RIP but it wasn't any better. Calibration is done on the machine every day, and temperature and humidity are within tolerances.

Alternatively, is there another wide format machine that would get us closer with color? Purchasing another machine is not out of the question. We would need something at least 40" wide.

 

[Al Ferrari]

A custom profile needs to be created for the combination of your version of Illustrator, your specific machine, and each paper stock you want to print to. Contact CHROMiX - Color Management, Custom ICC Profiles, ColorSync.

Al

 

[chad.trent]

Tell me more about it. How does it work? How close will that get us?

 

[ProperPixel]

There is the possibility that when the device was originally set up that the gamut was reduced to a specific color space...
examples: GRACoL or SWOP.

If this is true the you need to remove that restriction.

 

[Al Ferrari]

None of the profiles you have tried so far were created for the combination of your version of Illustrator, your specific machine, and each paper stock you want to print to. They are in that sense, somewhat generic. A profile specific to your conditions, by Chomix, or by any other profiling service, is going to put you on target. You would need as many specific profiles as the number of different conditions you will print from. It's that simple. Read a recent book or article on the subject to confirm this.

Al

 

[chad.trent]

Can you recommend any books or other literature? I'll need it to convince the people higher up than me to spend the required money.

 

[Al Ferrari]

Chromix would be better able to recommend a book to you, even if you don't buy anything from them.

Al

 

[michaelejahn]

@ Chad Trent - well, the device is not performing to your requirements color wise, yes ? Is that not enough to convince folks that it needs professional tuning ?

When I worked for Compose, we sold an application named Star Proof, but simply buying and installing the app does not magically 'fix' the color, you need to discover what the devices current color state is, then measure it, then create a file that will change that to your required state.

perhaps your team can review this very simple page:

Compose Color Blog: With Star Proof 6 spot color matching is a breeze

Then, contact someone at The Color Management group.

Color Management Group

Or find and expert who can come in and help that is local:

The Official G7 Master & G7 Expert Directory | IDEAlliance

Hope that helps !

 

[Correct Color]

Chad,

I've got a few packaging comp clients, and I know from experience that that's pretty serious business when it comes to color. Clients in this field generally don't have much tolerance for less than perfect.

What you need is a couple of things: First is to get a good handle on understanding how color management works. And then the second is to implement color management in your situation so as to put it to work for you.

First off, it is going to take a large-formt RIP -- read: Not Harlequin. But you need a RIP with a PMS library to define your spot colors correctly, and also, right now I just don't trust the Mac/Illustrator combination to reliably print anything correctly.

I'll differ from Michael just a bit to say the one thing you absolutely do not need is anything related to G7. Not only is G7 an absolute waste of time in large-format printing, it's particularly useless in your particular application.

But you do need to contact someone. Me, for instance. It'll cost you, of course. But not as much as continuing to get it wrong while you look for salvation online.

(Edited to add: No, you don't need to buy another machine. The one you've got will do what you want it to do just fine. You just need to configure a workflow that will send it the correct information telling it to print what you want it to print.)


Mike Adams