Which one!!!!!!!

[lfelton]

Not uneducated at all. I happen to print jobs for another shop who's KM6500 can't handle well enough for their customers. They were led to believe the "look's like offset" hype, which may be true on uncoated stock. This job happens to be on 100lb gloss text and their customer rejected it because it looked too flat, you could tell the difference between the non-image gloss of the sheet and the flat dull look of the image area.

I ran the job on my 8000AP and watta ya know, their customer said "it looks like offset". I have matched print runs from their Heidelberg's when they needed small re-prints.

OK Craig, I haven't had my first coffee of the day yet, so (just this one last time) you'll get a rise out of me and I'll bite.

Ohio is a State. Craig lives in Ohio. Therefore all people living in Ohio are called Craig.

Right?

Wrong. Faulty logic, just like this tired old drum you're banging.

Just because your customer can't get his 6500 to operate correctly does not mean that all 6500's don't print correctly.

We run KM and Xerox kit and they both have their strengths and weaknesses, but operated and maintained correctly they both "do what it says on the tin", i.e. produce good quality print.

You talk good sense nearly all of the time, but you have a bee in your bonnet about KM. As I said in a different thread another time you made this claim: the 6501 produces an appropriate level of gloss in nearly every circumstances (search my last post for specific detail). With the same stipulations as last time (i.e. the requestor makes a donation to a children's charity) I'll post a printed sample off of a properly run 6501 on gloss paper to anyone, anywhere, anytime. That machine (7-8 months old) has about a million impressions on it, so is a pretty good representation of a "real life" standard print from a machine in the field.

Coffee's arrived, so I've got to cut this short...

 

[Steve_S]

Good response - I didn't think this forum was for guys to flame whatever puts the bur under their saddle. Like I have said before, service is a lot of the issue. Océ support on the CS650 and CS665 has been phenomenal for US (I am not in any of your shops, so I can speak for our 2 machines, not all) and they have provided us the ability to produce consistent quality that Konica's technicians could not. We know of a shop that had a 6060, just like we used to own, and their local techs could not ever keep it working but ours ran like a champ. Don't target the box without knowing what it can do given the right maintenance and care.

 

[Craig]

So you are saying uncoated is ok but coated is not? So the machine completely changes it's output on coated stock? You expect the same output regardless of stock. Like I say uneducated comments go in gregnacs thread.

I expect the image to match the gloss appearance of the paper, much like offset. (it will never completely happen because of toner laying on top of the sheet) Maybe you need to get a Pantone Coated book and a Pantone Uncoated book and do a little comparing.

Even the covers of the Quick Printing Magazine October 2008 which were printed on 2 KM 6500's were very flat and looked as if they were done on a "color copier". The text is not crisp at all, very fuzzy, but if that is what you want then by all means, who am I to judge.

 

[Keith]

Which one? That one!

Which one? That one!

Well, thank you everyone! This thread I started has been very helpful with the last little bits of decision making (after a year and half of research) as well as entertaining. I hope I win an oscar for my performance as "Keith Skywalker" in "Print Wars" (thanks R2D2!). Anyway, I am now a "Xerox Homer" as SnappySteve put it. They came back with an offer that was very comparable to the Konica and of course, they always had the lowest click rate. I feel I took a large enough step and bought the most machine I can afford. I can't wait for my new DC252. The time I spend fixing my current machine (no service contract) will easily pay for the Xerox. I would have loved to have gone with a KM6501 or whatever but they were all way, way, way out of my tiny little digital printshop's budget.

Keith- proud father of a new DC252- "It's a boy!"

P.S. One last thing- I feel like I joined a cult. I would appreciate any reassurance that anyone can offer me!!!!

 

[X33]

So the machine completely changes it's output on coated stock? You expect the same output regardless of stock.

totally wrong. Of course uncoated vs coated makes a difference in output. Why do you think there are Pantone Chips for Uncoated and Coated media. Does the Red 032 looks the same on both?

 

[Steve_S]

Keith- proud father of a new DC252- "It's a boy!"

Congratulations - hope it helps you grow your business!!!

When are the cigars coming?!?!?!?!

 

[Craig]

Keith- proud father of a new DC252- "It's a boy!"

Congratulations!

Your "birth" celebration will be more like a honeymoon once it's installed!

 

[lfelton]

Congratulations!

Your "birth" celebration will be more like a honeymoon once it's installed!

Oh now there's an image I did not want in my head.

 

[Steve_S]

Oh now there's an image I did not want in my head.

I thought the same and was afraid to say it....

But at least it finishes up the thread with a smile instead of people wanting to strangle each other