Xerox 550 vs Versant 180....Post installation regret.

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
I'm struggling a bit with reconciling your various comments and posts on here as some of it seems quite contradictory.

You seem to be suggesting that the Versant is no better than the 550 and there was no point upgrading. But you said earlier:



So clearly you couldn't just go back to the 550 - that wasn't doing what you needed it to do.

You've also said about the cost of the Versant being a waste, but you again said that you're paying less for it than you paid for the 550.

Quite honestly, it seems like you've managed the hard part which is to find a niche which you can work in order to get business. However, it really seems like you don't know what you are doing when it comes to basic production printing workflow.

My suggestion to you would be to absorb as much input from the professional printers on here, and figure out (getting paid training if necessary), what the most effective workflow is for your product.

You need to basically forget about how you were doing things on the 550 and start from scratch with the correct way of doing things on your new production machine.

As several people on here have shown today, they can print out and trim down the documents you showed to a high level of accuracy in no time at all, and if they're doing longer runs the registration is probably fine too: when you are complaining about registration it actually sounds like more of an issue with processing the documents in an inconsistent way, rather than the machine holding the registration over repeated prints.

So take a few steps back. Listen to the advice, get training (perhaps from Xerox or your supplier, or even someone off here will probably do a day's paid consultancy for you) and redesign your process from scratch.

You're making this all way too difficult.

Re quality, this is another area where you probably need training to dial the settings in right on your machine. The Versant is capable of higher quality and more importantly with a much greater level of consistency than your old machine.

I say this as someone who has set up an in-house repro recently. I admit with most of the stuff I haven't got a clue what I'm doing, but I recognise my own limits and wouldn't make blanket statements that the equipment is no good when I'm using it the wrong way. I know enough to do what I got the equipment to do; and there are potentially loads of other things I want to expand into but I need to learn and get training to be able to figure it out. None of that is a bad thing, but please just listen to the advice people are giving you, forget about your workflow on the 550, which clearly did not work and was a bodge job, and start from scratch. What you are trying to do is not complicated if you go about it in the right way

What I mean is...I could print at 100% & chop down on the 550 if I'd of wanted. I always used the scale to fit method & printed on A3 if I needed an A3 poster etc.

I could go a few hours on the 550 & get 10 posters with that method...I can go the same time on the V180 & get nothing with an even margin using the scale to fit method using SIQA & then tweaking the manual alignment.

I'm paying half the cost per click that I was on the 550...but it seemingly can't do the same method I used on the 550 as it just uses tons of paper for nothing except frustration.

I got the Dahle chopper...& that seems like a whole new can of worms to me. There is a lot to learn & I accept that.

I'm going to get an analyst out for the machine & maybe there are some settings to work on.

If not I'll have to get used to chopping down, but it's an extra step I never had to do before.

I felt I knew much more about what I was doing on the 550 so understand about knowing your limits.

I appreciate everyone's input...and the ability to vent my frustrations to an extent.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
I could go a few hours on the 550 & get 10 posters with that method...I can go the same time on the V180 & get nothing with an even margin...
This reads as though you were happy with those 10 posters in 3 hours from the 550 ! You must have been recycling reams of paper every day and paying for thousands of clicks you never resold.

For years, on our old KM C454e (not a production machine) we would print over 500 or so pages per hour onto 250GSM silk.
Sure, the registration wasn't the best, the rollers on the input side needed regular cleaning between jobs, refilling the bypass tray every 40 or so sheets was frustrating, as were the occasional pickup jams. Very little wastage though, in fairness.
But - and this is the important bit - going from a 550 to a V180 should have been a similar experience for you as going from that C454e to the C4080 was for us.

I got the Dahle chopper...& that seems like a whole new can of worms to me.
With your new rotary trimmer, make sure you're printing crops on the oversized sheet, work clockwise rather than opposite sides so you don't end up cutting your top & bottom crops off early and use the screen printed rulers for your last (long edge) cut.
 

AP90

Well-known member
What I mean is...I could print at 100% & chop down on the 550 if I'd of wanted. I always used the scale to fit method & printed on A3 if I needed an A3 poster etc.

I could go a few hours on the 550 & get 10 posters with that method...I can go the same time on the V180 & get nothing with an even margin using the scale to fit method using SIQA & then tweaking the manual alignment.

I'm paying half the cost per click that I was on the 550...but it seemingly can't do the same method I used on the 550 as it just uses tons of paper for nothing except frustration.

I got the Dahle chopper...& that seems like a whole new can of worms to me. There is a lot to learn & I accept that.

I'm going to get an analyst out for the machine & maybe there are some settings to work on.

If not I'll have to get used to chopping down, but it's an extra step I never had to do before.

I felt I knew much more about what I was doing on the 550 so understand about knowing your limits.

I appreciate everyone's input...and the ability to vent my frustrations to an extent.
I think the biggest thing to take away from this is that your process isn’t how anyone else does things. So your doing it “wrong” based on industry standards. You were able to get away with it because the 550 just deleted everything 3mm from the edge. So your image might not have actually been registered correctly. It just looked like it because the 550 couldn’t print any further to the edge. The 180 has different tolerances. That’s why your old process isn’t working now.
You obviously seem like your able to run a business and be successful and find your niche. I think you’d be surprised if you went back to the beginning and started your processes over. If your do a correct layout of the image in indesign or similar software and then print and cut like we all do then you will find the process goes smoothly and effortlessly. It might be 1 more step than your used to, but I guarantee, beyond a shadow of a doubt, it would save you time and money.
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
OK, so I've had an analyst here to look at the machine...as expected it is user error (me)

They did change it from photographic to presentation mode though which sorted the colour issues I was having & he said he'd had the same issue recently elsewhere.

Cutting down from larger sheets is the way forward but I always saw this as an unnecessary step & aimed at people cutting down to save on costs rather than getting a certain margin etc.

There are very few guides about "industry standards" & cutting down from people actually within the printing industry so it's understandable that my workflow was a little different to the norms.

I have already had success with the new trimmer rather than using the guillotine so I guess that's a factor too.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions & ideas.

:)
 

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