Konica C8000 review and Please HELP!!!!

[Bob Ruscoe]

Sorry! No intention hijacking this thread. My point was that registration on the NEW KM
seems to still be as problematic as on the OLD KM despite "new technology" and that another manufacturer using the same technology has found a solution to the problem by modifying the paper handling aspects of the original...

 

[lfelton]

Sorry! No intention hijacking this thread. My point was that registration on the NEW KM
seems to still be as problematic as on the OLD KM despite "new technology" and that another manufacturer using the same technology has found a solution to the problem by modifying the paper handling aspects of the original...

Bob - check post #1 in this thread, where the OP reports that his problem is fixed. Like many shops, we run hundreds of thousands of SRA3 sheets a month through various KM (and Xerox) production machines. If there was a fundamental problem with them, nobody would buy them. If your machine (from any vendor) is not performing _to it's specification_, get it fixed. The French company MGI does not use KM print engines in order to "fix" the feeds (they are not broken), it uses them because they are the best commercial and technical fit they could find for their machines. The value that they add IMO is more to do with their flexible handling of different substrates, i.e. plastics.

 

[csudman]

I guess its time for me to weight in again. We are running much better. Registration is holding pretty tight right. Yes, this thread was created to voice my opinion and look for help from other users(thats what this forum is for). My issue was fixed. KM made it right. The honest truth is every machine his issues. This one is just had them all at once. It seems as if we are past that now. Just have a few paper cataloge issues to sort out and I think we will be good for the long haul. IF that changes, I will report back.

CJ

 

[ColorKeyOp]

I guess its time for me to weight in again. We are running much better. Registration is holding pretty tight right. Yes, this thread was created to voice my opinion and look for help from other users(thats what this forum is for). My issue was fixed. KM made it right. The honest truth is every machine his issues. This one is just had them all at once. It seems as if we are past that now. Just have a few paper cataloge issues to sort out and I think we will be good for the long haul. IF that changes, I will report back.

CJ

Can you enlighten me on your paper catalog issues? Our shop just purchased several KM 8000s.

 

[csudman]

Its a small issue. Think its firmware related. I've got to put a call in on it today. If a stock sent from a command workstation job doesn;t match the stock in the machine, I get weird characters and stuff from the screen.

 

[richwitney]

I guess its time for me to weight in again. We are running much better. Registration is holding pretty tight right. Yes, this thread was created to voice my opinion and look for help from other users(thats what this forum is for). My issue was fixed. KM made it right. The honest truth is every machine his issues. This one is just had them all at once. It seems as if we are past that now. Just have a few paper cataloge issues to sort out and I think we will be good for the long haul. IF that changes, I will report back.

CJ

Great to see that you are now sorted.

We're up to 400k on our C8000 and it's been a revelation really - runs so much sweeter than our 6500 and just swallows up whatever we throw at it.

We've had the odd page with poor back-up - but we've learnt that putting the paper guides in the correct place helps with this. There's a little skew, but nothing to worry too much about (probably 0.25 degrees max).

We're finding little or no difference between the prints from our C8000 and our Anicolor, especially on coated stocks.

So far so good!

 

[ColorKeyOp]

Has anybody received a KM 8000 with the optional humidifier unit? It's supposed to help eliminate paper curl.

 

[csudman]

We do not have a humidifier. There are very few instances where I cannot get all of the curl out of my stocks with the decurling stuff that is built in. I have heard that adding a humidifier adds alot of time to warm up to print. Which is slow enough as it is.

CJ

 

[lfelton]

Has anybody received a KM 8000 with the optional humidifier unit? It's supposed to help eliminate paper curl.

Yes we have the humidifier. It's only useful for uncoated stocks.

 

[csudman]

Ok, its been a while since I've commented. We are trying to be patient with Konica. They continue to promise we the machine will run. Its a joke at this point. We're done.

I haven't been 100% operational in a about 3 weeks. Scratches, magnification, registration, skew. This is simply unbelievable. In the last 3 days, our machine has had 1 and a half PM's, replaced multiple sensors and more. We bounce from issue to issue. One is fixed(we're honestly settling for close enough on most things), another appears. 3 times yesterday our service manager(who has been at our store since tuesday) said, I think we've got it. I walk up, print one file and walk away without looking at it. NEVER RIGHT!!!

Right now the biggest issue is a weird magnification issue, the left side of the long side of the sheet is about 2 mil longer than the right side on a 13x19. I CANNOT print anything that is semi tight registration duplexed.

I am profiling my stocks(teaching my techs things about the paper catalogue and how to do both sides, restart timing, etc...

At this point, we want it out of our store. 9 months of this is completely unacceptable. I cringe to think of the next 51 months. We have asked Konica to buy out the lease, they requested a 10 day trial with our existing machine to see if they could get it to the advertized 98% uptime(don't know where that number came from, but they put it out there). They asked to be able to get the machine to 100% before the trial began to be fair to them. Its been 3 days and they can't get it to 100% to start the trial. Their fall back is to offer a new machine to replace it. WE DO NOT WANT ANOTHER KONICA MINOLTA MACHINE IN OUR OFFICE.

What would you do? Any suggestions on how we can approach this any differently? Are we being unreasonable?

Thanks
CJ

 

[rbailleu]

I know it sounds unreasonable, but I would let them bring in a brand new machine. with a few conditions. any issues at all and it goes immediately

 

[richwitney]

I'd also go with a new machine - assuming you don't get another lemon you'll grow to appreciate what a good piece of kit it is.

Sounds like you've been very unlucky.

Keep us informed!

 

[csudman]

I know it sounds unreasonable, but I would let them bring in a brand new machine. with a few conditions. any issues at all and it goes immediately

But why. My business is suffering severly from this machine. I've lost customers, missed tons of deadlines. You would go thru it again?

 

[Craig]

From what I have been told by my KM dealer, the early versions had issues that their service manager deemed to big to allow any installs. They are not quite ready to jump on the 8000 bandwagon yet but are getting close. This dealer is one of the largest in the US too, so I'm sure KM would like them to be on board.

 

[RKS]

After 9 months, I'd have them out of there in a heart beat. KM is not going to reimburse you for all the lost time, lost materials, lost clients, if they haven't been able to fix it or replace it by now, they are only going to string you along. They should have come forward with replacing the machine a long time ago.

We purchased a new machine in September and there were some nagging problems that we upset about and after two months I told the vendor either they remedy the problem or else replace the machine. Within a week they had an engineer from corporate headquarters in and fixed the problems. We started having a monthly meeting with all the vendor's sales, sales management, service and regional service management to review each month and see if there are any problems or needs we are having. I call that a vendor being very proactive.

 

[KopyBoss]

Why did you put up with this for 9 months? I would have requested a new box after one week of down time on a new machine. We have had Xerox & KM boxes replaced within three weeks of having them. If they are not running no one is making money. We had a issue they sent out a specialist and he couldn't figure out the problem we told them they had one week to get it fixed or replace the box. Not sure what your volume is, we are one of there highest volume customers for printing shops and we have them jump thru hoops cause they know there competition would love to have our business. Bottom line the c8000 is a great box I would have them put in a new one, sounds like you just got a lemon.

 

[Joe Duffy]

I would demand they remove the equipment. If you do not feel like trying another KM box - which they should have offered months ago - then demand to have the lease voided NOW. No legal action against you would stand up if you have the service records. Hope you have been shopping equipment because you can now get really aggressive with the competition to have them be the one to remove the lemon.

 

[csudman]

Why did you put up with this for 9 months?

Haha, I ask myself that every day these days. It has progressively gotten worse. The big issues started about 3 months ago. KM has worked hard to fix them, but it has turned into a game of wack-a-mole. One thing fixed, another wrong.

 

[csudman]

I would demand they remove the equipment. If you do not feel like trying another KM box - which they should have offered months ago - then demand to have the lease voided NOW. No legal action against you would stand up if you have the service records. Hope you have been shopping equipment because you can now get really aggressive with the competition to have them be the one to remove the lemon.

I hope that is the outcome.

 

[Emtri]

Right now the biggest issue is a weird magnification issue, the left side of the long side of the sheet is about 2 mil longer than the right side on a 13x19. I CANNOT print anything that is semi tight registration duplexed.

CJ

This wants to make me think that your machine was never correctly set up in the first place. I have no experience with the 8000's but I used to set up the 6500/6501's and 1050's for before they went out on instals. There are alot of steps in setting a machine up which include magnification, restart timing, centering and colour. The fact that your getting such a distorted image makes me thing ether something was incorrectly set up (Service mode settings)
Im assuming this is happening on all jobs/colours/stocks? As for scratching, depending on the types of stock your running, it may just be a reality of that particular stock especially heavy gloss coated stocks

Also as much as of a konica person as I am, your definitely within the frame of mind/business sense were you would want to walk away and go with a new machine.