Konica C8000 review and Please HELP!!!!

Toner4Brains

Active member
Thats the same story I got....i dont see how one test sheet would take so much heat out that it needs to warm up. some serious software fault

Rsands-
The time it takes for warm up is to stabilize fuser temps. You can cut the warm up time considerably by going into Utility - User Settings - Common Settings - hit next a couple of times until you see the options "Fusing Stability (Quick Start)" and change it from Image Quality to Speed. There is also an option for Fusing Stability on Mixed Media which if set to speed will not stop at all between different weight sheets. The caution here is that the fusing temp may be slightly different on the first few sheets of a job as it stabilizes once in production, but it cuts that warm up time down by about 70%.
 

Toner4Brains

Active member
Here is a link to the dropbox file. Take a look. the shift is visable from the scan, but its a bit more pronouced in person. FYI. This is a print of 10 sheets. This is a SHEET to SHEET issue. Whats interesting, is it is not visible on all projects. Solids seem to be where it really shows up.

Does the color stabilize once a job is running or does it continue to jump around like this throughout a run? Without knowing a whole lot of details, it wouldn't be totally out of the ordinary that color could shift like this in one of 2 scenarios:
-If the CDC sheets were spit out prior to this job starting, it would begin the process of adjusting the color over however many sheets you have the CDC control set up for (you can have it move abruptly or slowly over a number of sheets).
-If the IDC is detecting changes sheet to sheet, it would take a few sheets to stabilize so if it jumps around in the beginning of a job and stabilizes that may just be the machine doing what it should be doing (technically) and getting the color back to where it should be as much as an excuse that sounds like.
 

csudman

Well-known member
Does the color stabilize once a job is running or does it continue to jump around like this throughout a run? If I run 200 or 1000, same issue. Its sheet to sheet.

Without knowing a whole lot of details, it wouldn't be totally out of the ordinary that color could shift like this in one of 2 scenarios:
-If the CDC sheets were spit out prior to this job starting, it would begin the process of adjusting the color over however many sheets you have the CDC control set up for (you can have it move abruptly or slowly over a number of sheets). We are outputting CDC sheets every 500. Sometimes it prints them before the first sheet comes out, sometimes not. I'm not sure of the reason it happens that way.

-If the IDC is detecting changes sheet to sheet, it would take a few sheets to stabilize so if it jumps around in the beginning of a job and stabilizes that may just be the machine doing what it should be doing (technically) and getting the color back to where it should be as much as an excuse that sounds like. Being the sheets vary through the entire job, I dont see this as the situation. No, the IDC may be detecting the changes and trying to adjust it back on every sheet. I don't know. We pay A LOT of money for service so I don't have to know.
 

rsands

Well-known member
Thanks Toner4Brains....worked a treat. You wouldn't mind coming over and teaching Konica a few things??
 

grafix

Active member
I too have a C8000 with problems like yours and others. Try running the sheet in tray 5 & 6 and see if this alignment is helped. If you have auto-centering off and are using mechanical alignments that is one thing. If auto-centering is turned on you will have problems...a fix is being tested.
 

csudman

Well-known member
After 2 and a half months of no fix, sending at least 2 sets, if not 3, of samples from the machine to the KM lab. The engineers decided to reinstall the fiery, which makes no sence.

Km's software tech got here at 1:00 yesterday and stated there was no reason to reinstall fiery so when the hardware guy got here they installed all new drums instead. (They were at about 60% of life). It made a difference, were about 75% better, but its still not right.

This is rediculas. I hate KM.
 

KopyBoss

Well-known member
We have been lucky no major problems with our c8000. I would tell them to either fix the problem or replace the print engine again this time with a new one...Not one with a 100k.
 

IR8PIR8

New member
Wow, this seems to be the only bad report on the C8000. There sure are a lot of other bad ones on their competitors, especially the Ricoh 901.
When looking at the C8000 the only real machine that fits in that space with them is the Xerox 800.
The Ricoh 901 comes to an absolute creep when doing any mixed media. I have literally seen jobs take over three minutes on a 901 that took under 20 seconds on a C8000. That single fuser on the 901 kills it. It takes forever to switch media, not to mention i hear they have color consistency issues.
It is very important on a C8000 to realize their paper catalog is imperative. You do not want to run that machine with generic paper descriptions, you need to catalog your paper.
Another bright spot for the C8000 is that Konica Minolta manufactures their own finishing and Ricoh and most other manufacturers do not. This means when a VDP job jams you can reclaim on the proper record due to it having true bi directional communication pas the engine. When other manufacturers outsource their finishers to other companies they slow down considerably from engine speed and they also lose communication past the engine. Big problem!
The C8000 also has two densitometers on the inside so they are checking density both pre and post fusing while most others are just doing this once if at all. I also like the 350gsm single sided and the 300gsm duplexed. If you catalog your papers and listen to your trainers they will typically give you a sequence to do these actions, that order sequence is important. If you follow it you will get good consistent registration as well.
I know the C8000 also has a larger color gammut than most engines out there so you can hit those difficult colors a little more easy. I know I have been provided many positive and glowing references on the C8000 and they all seem very happy. You can't make everyone happy, but the majority of C8000 owners I talk to seem to love it.
It's a shame Ricoh directed me to this site and particular blog as a selling tactic against Konica Minolta. There seem to be compliments and complaints on every machine, but if you line the spec's and facts up the KM seems to be stronger.
200 page booklet, 80 page on 901
300 page perfect binder on KM
Dual fuser versus one fuser that winds up and down in temperature for mixed media. exponentially faster on the KM.
The folder on the KM is brilliant, 6 different types of folds, some even nested.

Just my opinion, but the C8000 is gold. The only other machinein its class is the Xerox 800 if you got the money.
 

jpnunes

New member
KM C8000 Problems... Problems... Problems....

KM C8000 Problems... Problems... Problems....

A lot said about the C8000, but I can tell you something. I am running 2 KM C8000 with CREO Rips for a year now. One has 615K clicks and the other has 800K. Both of them have great color quality. The consistency in color is very good as long as you know what you're doing. Keep it calibrated in a regular basis and the color is always there. But when it comes to productivity. My friends this machines have more problems then an old car. The Cleaning units on one of this machine stop working every two weeks and a lot of marks come on the printing, jamming on light stocks happens way to often even when we are using some of the best papers and we have tried them all. I don't know if the problems are not solved because of the lack of knowledge of the engineers in Ireland or the machines just cannot handle it at all. If someone has experienced problems like this please give us a shout a let me know how have they been handled by your techs.
 

rsands

Well-known member
Ah your the other C8000's in Ireland :D

Techs are close to terrible when it comes to trouble shooting - i dont blame them as such, its just the sheer lack of the machines in Ireland and when they aren't working them every day knowledge gets limited. We got the service manual and now fix most problems ourselves. If you have a full understanding of the machine in the service manual, most problems can be self diagnosed.

thin paper - it is crucial each of the units is 100% aligned...otherwise sheets get caught and jam. What type of marks are you getting? What weight of stock do you mostly run?
 

jpnunes

New member
Hey, thanks for the reply, I do think the same, that the lack of C8000's in Ireland is part of the problem... The marks are like stricks made from the 4 color and they are coming from the vertical transfer belt, that I do know for sure. Why does it happen so often it's what I would like to understand. We run from 100gsm bond paper to 350 matt and gloss coated stocks. Problems with the jamming more often happen on the light stocks, 130/150/170, often in the 1st fusing unit witch seems as if the rolls skew on the paper and don't pull the paper forward as the print comes from the edge of the sheet instead of centering it and imprints the 4CMYK lines in the end of this sheet as if i was running a bigger size sheet then the one i had specified. Probably hard to understand all this. I could upload an image of a sheet and send you a link so you'll know what I mean. Will do that later today.
 

kingpd@businessprints.net

Well-known member
glad you aren't beating your technicians up and are understanding. many techs are underpaid and overworked. the sheer number of makes and models that a tech may have to work on can be alarming. add to that all the qwarks, manuals, and tech bulletins and you're looking at tens' of thousands of pages of information.
 

KopyBoss

Well-known member
Maybe we were lucky or just have a good tech. Last month we ran 375,000 imp all 12 x18 and only had 1 service call to replace upper fuser roll. We are averaging around 250k imp month and 1-3 service calls. Not sure what to tell you maybe it's your techs not fixing the machine correctly. Our machine holds the density with no problems we run a lot of solids and photos We use Profile Maker Pro to profile our paper in the 8000 works very well. If they cannot fix your machine I'm sure you can get out of your contract. I wouldn't pay them for a machine that is not running.
 

Toner4Brains

Active member
jpnunes-
The CMYK line on the edge of the sheet is likely a timing issue which may be the root of your jamming problem as well. There is a densitometer looking at the intermediate transfer belt, and in between image frames the engine prints a full width control bar in the cross direction of the belt -there is a gap in between sheets in the paper path and the control bar is placed inside that non-image area on the belt and should never end up on paper. The densitometer uses this to measure DMax at first transfer and holds it within tolerance. If timing is off, you'll see this control bar printed on the actual sheet and it is 4 very thin lines of each color. If this is the case, it would mean the rollers actually aren't timed with the sheet cadence either and could be the cause of your paper jams.

Let me know if it sounds like what you're referring to. The adjustment for it is called "restart timing", but it is in the service mode menu.
 

jpnunes

New member
Hi, that what happens indeed. Though it only happens with some paper types and brands. Never happens with any stock over 170gsm. This week I have a whole new problem. Code C2721. The tech has replaced a "dis-charger" This code only comes up if running heavy stock over 220gsm. Now the code came back and the techs have no idea why. I have had a look at the connections myself following the manual but everything seems fine. Any help on this would be gratefully appreciated. You run 375K with one call. Friend I cant run 35K without a call. I have quit smoking and i think this two machines will drive me to drink instead! LOL! Please help...
 

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