Nanographic Printing Technology from Benny Landa

[Green Printer]

Now that the hype is past what does it cost. How much for a click charge? Maintenance cost? What type of job mix can be profitable.
I see gang run printers selling 8.5 x 11 printed 4 / 4 on 100# gloss text for $88.00 plus shipping.
On my digital printer it cost me $55.00 for clicks running 2 up, plus lease payment plus paper cost.
I can't print them digital for $88.00 even with our ricoh 901. For me to compete with the gang run houses I would have to be able to produce in house the 1,000 pcs for $50.00 or less. Is it possible to do 1000 8.5 x 11 4 / 4 on any digital machine for $55.00 including paper.
Unless it is variable data I don't see any advantage to digital.

At what price point does it make sense to produce digital in house or send it out to a gang printer using offset presses.

 

[Sustainable]

If the printed pieces set in a warm warehouse, car or car trunk will they adhere to each other? Can the sheets be UV or aqueous coated? How long do they have to cool before cutting or folding? There is a lot of pressure in a folder will the sheets stick together? What about mailboxes that are in direct sunlight they can get to hot to touch will the ink stick to the other pieces or to itself?

 

[D Ink Man]

Transient marking, Sustainable?

Also, what about the lightfastness of these NanoInks?? Yes LIGHTFASTNESS.

 

[chevalier]

Transient marking, Sustainable?

Also, what about the lightfastness of these NanoInks?? Yes LIGHTFASTNESS.

Completely conjecture here but I would think these pigments are very similar to those used by Epson.
Epson UltraChrome HDR Ink is rated at...
Color Up to 200 years
Black-and-White Over 200 years

Remember that particles on the nanoscale exist in a very different world of physics. There are all kinds of crazy things that start occurring / stop occurring at this level. I've been looking for a primer on nanoscale physics from a university but I have yet to find a 'generic' one for laymen.

 

[Sustainable]

LIGHTFASTNESS never thought of that one. I would bet they wouldn't last 3 weeks in direct sunlight. Since the ink film is so thin there sure isn't much pigment to withstand any sunlight.

 

[D Ink Man]

Ha Ha, great point about the ink film thickness! and...are they truly pigments or are they dyes? Still researching, thanks for any additional information that may forthcome.

 

[Sustainable]

Completely conjecture here but I would think these pigments are very similar to those used by Epson.
Epson UltraChrome HDR Ink is rated at...
Color Up to 200 years
Black-and-White Over 200 years

Remember that particles on the nanoscale exist in a very different world of physics. There are all kinds of crazy things that start occurring / stop occurring at this level. I've been looking for a primer on nanoscale physics from a university but I have yet to find a 'generic' one for laymen.

Put the ultrchrome in direct sunlight. Let us know how long it last. We have had many that fade in about 4 to 6 months. The ones out of the sunlight have never faded.
The pieces in direct sunlight that we laminated with UV blocking film have never faded yet.

 

[Green Printer]

Completely conjecture here but I would think these pigments are very similar to those used by Epson.
Epson UltraChrome HDR Ink is rated at...
Color Up to 200 years
Black-and-White Over 200 years

Remember that particles on the nanoscale exist in a very different world of physics. There are all kinds of crazy things that start occurring / stop occurring at this level. I've been looking for a primer on nanoscale physics from a university but I have yet to find a 'generic' one for laymen.

You are right on all of the crazy things. As the service area increases to volume of material there is more of the material exposed directly to the elements per unit volume of material. Thusly more light will directly hit a larger number of the the pigment particles giving brighter color and also shortening the life of the pigment due to the UV light bombarding a larger portion of pigment as compared to a thicker ink film.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

You are right on all of the crazy things. As the service area increases to volume of material there is more of the material exposed directly to the elements per unit volume of material. Thusly more light will directly hit a larger number of the the pigment particles giving brighter color and also shortening the life of the pigment due to the UV light bombarding a larger portion of pigment as compared to a thicker ink film.

I am also wondering how the nano pigments will affect ink transparency. For CMYK one needs a some level of transparency. If small pigments are packed too closely together, it might reduce transparency which requires some light to get through the ink layer and reflect back up from the substrate.

 

[chevalier]

<sarcasm> I bet this product will lead to nano-nuclear reactions causing the moon to turn into cheese. </sarcasm>

Are you guys chemists? physicists? Landa R&D insiders? I believe in a healthy critical discourse but some here are stretching extremely limited knowledge about this product into wild assumptions.

 

[gordo]

There is also the potential issue of nanotoxicity: Nanotoxicology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Especially if the inks are used for food packaging. And what about the health impact on the press operator handling the inks?

Best gordo

 

[Green Printer]

<sarcasm> I bet this product will lead to nano-nuclear reactions causing the moon to turn into cheese. </sarcasm>

Are you guys chemists? physicists? Landa R&D insiders? I believe in a healthy critical discourse but some here are stretching extremely limited knowledge about this product into wild assumptions.

Why do you think silk screen is used for outdoor long life signage? Very thick ink film about 10 to 15 times thicker than offset. More ink means more pigment which usually equals longer life outdoors or any place there is direct sun light.
Yes it is simple physics and chemistry. Surface area per unit volume is high school physics. Pigment chemistry is college and way beyond. That being said most pigments don't like UV light plain and simple.

 

[gordo]

Are you guys chemists? physicists? Landa R&D insiders? I believe in a healthy critical discourse but some here are stretching extremely limited knowledge about this product into wild assumptions.

I think the wild speculations and dodgy physics are good for two reasons:
1) They reveal some of the questions that prospective customers of Landa's press will need to ask (e.g. lightfastness, toxicity, recyclability, cost model, etc.)
2) They show just how poor industry news reporting is. AFAIK, these basic questions were never put to Landa at his news conferences. The print industry media just let Landa pitch his product in his charming unabashed way - without posing any relevant-to-printer or tough questions.

best, gordo

BTW, the moon is already made of cheese so the nano inks will probably have little further effect.

 

[Sustainable]

There is also the potential issue of nanotoxicity: Nanotoxicology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Especially if the inks are used for food packaging. And what about the health impact on the press operator handling the inks?

Best gordo

Nano pigments are 100 times smaller than regular pigments. I don't mind too much getting pigment on me. I sure as hell don't want the pigment leeching into me.

 

[Stephen Marsh]

I love the smell of nano-pigments in the morning!


Stephen Marsh

 

[D Ink Man]

LIGHTFASTNESS? Does Landa know?
And that 200 year deal; find it very difficult to believe. and..there is no such thing as UV blocking material; at least in conventional offset lithography.
We need concrete answer to the fade deal, absolutely. Put the nanographs in an Atlas xenon fade-o-meter and let's have a peeksie.

 

[damfino]

This video answers a lot of questions.

 

[D Ink Man]

Thank you damfino, that was very interesting.
But I will still play the devils advocate and question the permanency, the Lightfastness of the micro nano sized particles. I wonder as to the size of the pigment particle. Is it < or > than 1 micron? Are all pigments applicable for Nanography? If less ink film, the lightfatness would further have to be questioned.
Another point, they didn't show the press operating did they? Sooner or later the mysteries will come to the forefront.
I am very interested in the technology, but at the same time, want to learn more about it's practical and challenging aspects. I do respect it.

D

 

[damfino]

Not ready for Prime Time, for sure, but it's difficult to believe that Komori would commit to 6 prototypes without a high trust in fulfilled expectations.

 

[akalaray]

Back from Drupa. The Landa booth was impressive,Big show, lots of promises. The samples (under Plexiglas)were absolute trash, don't know why they even displayed them. Of the six presses none were producing printed sheets. $10,000 Euros, letter of intent gets you on a list???