Nanographic Printing Technology from Benny Landa

[Al Ferrari]

All three of these do not exist even on modern offset presses.

These are needed for consistency and predictability of the process. For very short makereadies, low waste and consistent print quality.

Landa's technology is aimed at offset in the short to medium run lengths. Develop these three factors and he will have a difficult problem displacing offset.

Erik, by "all three..." do you mean that none of these currently exist or that less than all three of them exist?

Al

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Erik, by "all three..." do you mean that none of these currently exist or that less than all three of them exist?

Al

In my view, none exist. That is where the easiest and lowest cost opportunities are. Does not even require a next generation press concept, which would be even better.

 

[D Ink Man]

The 3 major factors in any litho pressroom are, Coverage, Coverage, Coverage.

See gentlemen, this is where litho can be dramatically improved, by changing of the ink formula based on given coverage or take off for a given print form. This coverage factor is an everchanging variable.

The rigors that are put on an ink in very light to very heavy coverage are dramatically different. The idea would be to keep the same replenishment rate for each ink, regardless of coverage. More study would have to be done to find the ideal ink film thickness, say for each process color.Then, based on total percent covearge for that ink, that print form, the strength of that ink would be adjusted to accomodate the coverage. This would be ideal. If the inks and extender portion are formulated properly, you force constant replenishment based on take off. This would allow your ink to run at a constant state of proper micro emulsification, without adjustment to the dampeners. Ink stability in the train, ink setting and drying would be improved and predictable.

The design needed on press to achieve this is reachable. If you have 4 Full Strength process inks dispensed from pumps, that would be the ink used for a full coverage, 100% solid sheet. With the inks, you would have a let down extender asso designed to be pumped and mixed for each changing print form. Knowing the exact total coverage for each color, the ink would be pumped and mixed with the proper amount of let down extender to maintain constant ink film thickness and constant replenishment. This is an ideal situation to take litho closer to science, although it shall always remain an art.

So again, COVERAGE, is the most important factor and the one factor that presently cannot be controlled the constant. The example of an ink system, just described, would control the 3 most important factors in a pressroom, Coverage, Coverage, Coverage. D

 

[Sustainable]

Landa keeps taunting how nanography is cost effective and economical. Has anybody seen any real numbers?

 

[printsnpaints]

This is an interesting development for the printing industry. Using the term “ink ejectors” rather than inkjet heads is indeed quite a mystery. A different approach in applying ink to paper. Let's wait and see.

 

[Windsurfer]

Ink Ejectors

Ink Ejectors

This is an interesting development for the printing industry. Using the term “ink ejectors” rather than inkjet heads is indeed quite a mystery. A different approach in applying ink to paper. Let's wait and see.

In one of the videos he explains that what he calls "ink ejectors" are actually printheads with some tweak. I'd say he's probably using a full-width array of Kyocera printheads, the only ones capable of such speeds - and it matches the touted 600dpi variable drop spec. Those are being used in the fastest textile web presses to date. Tweaks are probably just different electronics and pulse shape than OEM.
At some point I though he might be using Memjet heads - they only work currently with dye inks, but his "nano pigments" could be "nano" enough to pass through those nozzles. Who knows, maybe in a not to distant future...
Would be nice, to have a replaceable $600 printhead power a hundreds-of-thousands-bucks machine, instead of a group of many printheads that cost $4k a pop.

Roberto

 

[D Ink Man]

What is "nano" enough?

I have posed the question multiple times, "What is the size of a typical nano ink particle?"

Keeping it simple, is the size smaller or larger than 1 micron? Perhaps we can make progress from the answer to that question.

Maybe Mr. Landa knows!!??

D

 

[gordo]

What is "nano" enough?

I have posed the question multiple times, "What is the size of a typical nano ink particle?"

Keeping it simple, is the size smaller or larger than 1 micron? Perhaps we can make progress from the answer to that question.

Landa says: "tens of nanometers in size"

10 nanometers is 0.01 microns

A hundred nanometers is 0.1 microns

So the size is smaller than 1 micron.

BTW, a 1% halftone dot at 240 lpi is 10 microns across.

Here's a rough comparison (you may have to download to see it properly)

The length of the Black line is the width of a 1% dot at 240 lpi (10.6 microns)
The length of the Yellow line is 1 micron
The length of the Blue line is .1 microns (a hundred nanometers)
The length of the Red line is .01 microns (10 nanometers)

Now a question for you...what is the size of process color ink particles? (I know they differ in size depending on the process color and I know they range in size within each color - i.e. they are not uniform in size).

best, gordo

 

[D Ink Man]

Landa says: "tens of nanometers in size"

10 nanometers is 0.01 microns

A hundred nanometers is 0.1 microns

So the size is smaller than 1 micron.

BTW, a 1% halftone dot at 240 lpi is 10 microns across.

best, gordo

Thank you Gordo, you are always an excellent source for answers and information.

That size of 10 nanometers or so is one small critter. I would like to understand the chemical intuitiveness and manufacturing process that creates a colorant so very minute.

The smallest ink pigment normally used in conventional inks is .10 - 5 microns. The normal K-C-M-Y pigments are all above 1 micron. Now some perspective is being gained.

Love education! D

 

[gordo]

The smallest ink pigment normally used in conventional inks is .10 - 5 microns. The normal K-C-M-Y pigments are all above 1 micron. Now some perspective is being gained.

That's interesting. My source has the ink particle size for process inks at:

K (carbon/furnace black) 0.03 - 0.10 microns
C (CI Pigment Blue 15:3) 0.10 - 0.25 microns
M (CI Pigment Red 57:1) 0.10 - 0.25 microns
Y (CI Pigment Yellow 13/12/14) 0.25 - 0.5 microns

Do you have any photo micrographs or documentation that you can share about pigment size?

best, gordo

 

[D Ink Man]

Gordo, please note paint pigments. Many of the same pigments used in paint are also used in ink.
Source: Engineering ToolBox

Particle Particle Size
(microns)
one inch 25400
dot (.) 615
Eye of a Needle 1230
Glass Wool 1000
Spanish Moss Pollen 150 - 750
Beach Sand 100 - 10000
Mist 70 - 350
Fertilizer 10 - 1000
Pollens 10 - 1000
Cayenne Pepper 15 - 1000
Textile Fibers 10 - 1000
Fiberglass Insulation 1 - 1000
Grain Dusts 5 - 1000
Human Hair 40 - 300
Human Hair 60 - 600
Dust Mites 100 - 300
Saw Dust 30 - 600
Ground Limestone 10 - 1000
Tea Dust 8 - 300
Coffee 5 - 400
Bone Dust 3 - 300
Hair 5 - 200
Cement Dust 3 - 100
Ginger 25 - 40
Mold Spores 10 - 30
Starches 3 - 100
Red Blood Cells 5 - 10
Mold 3 - 12
Mustard 6 - 10
Antiperspirant 6 - 10
Textile Dust 6 - 20
Gelatin 5 - 90
Spider web 2 - 3
Spores 3 - 40
Combustion-related - motor vehicles, wood burning,
open burning, industrial processes up to 2.5
Fly Ash 1 - 1000
Milled Flour, Milled Corn 1 - 100
Coal Dust 1 - 100
Iron Dust 4 - 20
Smoke from Synthetic Materials 1 - 50
Lead Dust 2
Face Powder 0.1 - 30
Talcum Dust 0.5 - 50
Asbestos 0.7 - 90
Calcium Zinc Dust 0.7 - 20
Paint Pigments 0.1 - 5
Auto and Car Emission 1 - 150
Metallurgical Dust 0.1 - 1000
Metallurgical Fumes 0.1 - 1000
Clay 0.1 - 50
Humidifier 0.9 - 3
Copier Toner 0.5 - 15
Liquid Droplets 0.5 - 5
Insecticide Dusts 0.5 - 10
Anthrax 1 - 5
Yeast Cells 1 - 50
Carbon Black Dust 0.2 - 10
Atmospheric Dust 0.001 - 40
Smoldering or Flaming Cooking Oil 0.03 - 0.9
Corn Starch 0.1 - 0.8
Sea Salt 0.035 - 0.5
Bacteria 0.3 - 60
Bromine 0.1 - 0.7
Lead 0.1 - 0.7
Radioactive Fallout 0.1 - 10
Rosin Smoke 0.01 - 1
Combustion 0.01 - 0.1
Smoke from Natural Materials 0.01 - 0.1
Burning Wood 0.2 - 3
Coal Flue Gas 0.08 - 0.2
Oil Smoke 0.03 - 1
Tobacco Smoke 0.01 - 4
Viruses 0.005 - 0.3
Typical Atmospheric Dust 0.001 to 30
Sugars 0.0008 - 0.005
Pesticides & Herbicides 0.001
Carbon Dioxide 0.00065
Oxygen 0.0005

D

 

[gordo]

Gordo, please note paint pigments. Many of the same pigments used in paint are also used in ink.
D

The pigment sizes I quoted are for offset inks.
Do you have better, more accurate, info? If so, I would appreciate getting it as it's hard to find this info.

best, gordo

 

[D Ink Man]

The pigment sizes I quoted are for offset inks.
Do you have better, more accurate, info? If so, I would appreciate getting it as it's hard to find this info.

best, gordo

Gordo, Here is what you need with one example of Process Cyan illustrated for particle size definition. The particle size you had previously suggested would not allow for nearly enough needed color strength to run a thin ink film such as is needed for Litho>

PROCESS COLOR USAGE OF ORGANIC PIGMENTS
(PROCESS PRINTING: Yellow, Magenta, Cyan, Black).

75% of all Yellow organic pigments are DIARYLIDE YELLOW (PY 12).
75% of all Magenta organic pigments are LITHOL RUBINE
(PR 57).
75% of all Cyan organic pigments are PHTALO BLUE
(PB 15).
CARBON BLACK � Pigment Black 6 - Lampblack,
Pigment Black 7 � Carbon Black, Furnace Black, Gas Black.




Process Cyan
•Name : Pigment Beta Blue
•Chemical Class : Copper Phthalocynine Blue
•Chemical Type : Organic
•Colour Index : Pigment Blue 15.3
•Colour Index Number : 74160
•CAS Number
•Code No. : 1050
•Specific Gravity : 1.5
•Oil Absorption : 45 CC
•Sieve Residue : 0.1 % Maximum (240 Mesh)
•Moisture Content : 0.5% Maximum
•Water Soluble : 0.5% Maximum
•ph of Aqueous Soln : 7
•Particle Size : 5-7.5 Microns

D Ink Man

 

[gordo]

Thanks. Is there a difference between pigment and particle size. I.e. can the pigment size (the numbers I have) be smaller than the particle size (the number you gave)? I.e. pigments clumping together to form particles?

Just trying to understand the discrepancy between your and my numbers.

Best, gordo

 

[D Ink Man]

A pigment particle is the smallest number in realtion to size. Offset litho inks are produced from pigments that definitely are larger than 1 micron.

The phthalo pigment in which I gave you as an example is the largest of the process colors at 5.0 - 7.5 microns. The finest is diarylide yellow which ranges form 2.5 - 4.0 microns.

Ink makers know that the most difficult pigment to grind is the phthalo blue. With your years of experience in the press room you may have noticed that process cyan is the most likely candidate of the four colors to cause plate wear. This is due to a poor job by the ink manufacturer of dispersing, grinding and thoroughly wetting the pigment particle's surface. When all those mechanisms are done properly, everyone reaps the rewards.
The ink maker gets maximum color strength and maximum gloss from the ink because the pigment gets properly wetted.
And the printer gets the smoothest grind on the finished ink product to transfer, print, and maximize the plate life for longer run work.

Obvious in talk about nanographics, the colorant particle size is about 1/10 of the size of a litho pigment. We have learned this through our discussions. Which also tells me the ink film in nano that ends up one the substrate is significantly thicker to get desired print density.

D

 

[gordo]

@D Ink Man - I've PM'd you, please check your inbox.

best, gordo

 

[D Ink Man]

Another thing to remember is that the micron size of a particular pigment can vary within the same classification. Again using phtalocyanine, C.I. 15:3 as an example , the dry color pigment can vary depending on the supplier. Some of the economy pigments that are coming out of the Far East have been seen to be less refined than traditional domestic Northern Hemisphere manufacture products of the Americas. And the biggest problem ink formulators, manufacturers and producers are facing is a great difference in the micron size within a lot or shipment. When you have pigment that has particle sizes that range from 4 - 10 microns within a batch, it is very difficult to process the raw material into ink. Still, ink purchasing agents will seek out these cheap entitites and the result is a suffering mode when trying to wet and make quality ink.

Now this leads to a whole other subject that I have been pounding my brains out to you printers. Don't buy the cheapest ink, because you will absolutely get what you pay for. And that will also include NO TECHNICAl SERVICE at no extra charge!

D

 

[Windsurfer]

...
Obvious in talk about nanographics, the colorant particle size is about 1/10 of the size of a litho pigment. We have learned this through our discussions. Which also tells me the ink film in nano that ends up one the substrate is significantly thicker to get desired print density.
D

Mmm... no. Physical properties (in this case, light absorbency) change with particle size. What Landa claims is that at this size, the particles are much more efficient at absorbing light than at larger sizes, and thus actually a thinner ink film is needed for nanography than for offset.
Don't forget visible light is (roughly) in the range of 400 to 800nm wavelength; particle size in this case ("tens of nanometers") would be an order of magnitude smaller than the visible wavelength, and that threshold is what probably makes Landa's nano inks something special.

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Mmm... no. Physical properties (in this case, light absorbency) change with particle size. What Landa claims is that at this size, the particles are much more efficient at absorbing light than at larger sizes, and thus actually a thinner ink film is needed for nanography than for offset.
Don't forget visible light is (roughly) in the range of 400 to 800nm wavelength; particle size in this case ("tens of nanometers") would be an order of magnitude smaller than the visible wavelength, and that threshold is what probably makes Landa's nano inks something special.

The size of the photon is probably more important and I am guessing that it is much smaller than a nanometer.

 

[D Ink Man]

What are these particles called? The colorants? Can we identify them, the ones that are used in nanographics? Positive ID only please.

__________________________________________

Thank you. D