xerox 700 vs konica c7000

[sbs01]

we've just been given a fabulous demo of the xerox 700 and are scheduled to meet the konica folks tomorrow. biggest issue we're trying to solve with this purchase is the ability to duplex on 110# cover stock. we're also very concerned with reliability of registration, color, and, of course, the machines themselves.

would love any feedback anyone has on with either of these machines or, most of all, if anyone has used both what your preference would be.

for the moment at least konica folks are telling us they'll match xerox's price quote on all specs (although i had thought the konica was a higher end machine...?)

also, am curious if anyone has had any luck REPRINTING on stocks from either of these machines...xerox guys were very upfront in calling it a no no, konica guys - at least for now - are claiming it's no problem. anyone have any actual experience with that?

all advice and feedback HUGELY appreciated!

thank you!

 

[airyk]

the Xerox 700 can't duplex anything above 100# cover.

We "use to" run some jobs thru that were printed on the normal press and then imprint on the Xerox. BUT our Xerox tech got tired of coming out to clean that machine with tons of press powder throughout the Xerox and finally put his foot down about having to come clean it saying it was not what the digital press was intended for.

 

[airyk]

I for got to add one thing. You actually can lie to the machine and tell it that the paper is thinner BUT in the long run you will wreck the machine (gears might strip out) and you might have fusing problems by lying to the machine.

hope that helps.

 

[RKS]

We have had a 700 for 22 months and have about 2.6million (95% 12 x 18 or 13 x 19) clicks on it. We do duplex 110# cover on a regular basis. Once in awhile they do have to replace some of the gears, but is usually not a problem. You can get and maintain a lot closer registration than what the specs are.

As far as imprinting on already printed offset stock, we do it day in and day out. We do reduce the amount of offset powder when running and do smaller lifts, so as not to offset the job. With the ink we use, as long it has sat for 72 hours before running, there is no problems whatsoever.

 

[sbs01]

"With the ink we use, as long it has sat for 72 hours before running, there is no problems whatsoever"

curious...do you use something other than their recommended ink? how does that work with payperclick pricing? am assuming it voids it...?

also, for fols using the pay per click pricing structures...has anybody gotten their @$%#* handed to them for going over the alotted coverage (5% =/- 7% according to our rep...)?

he was "unable" to tell us what our sample sheet counted as by km standards, but swore it "looked within bounds" but of course, since going over could mean we're in hell supply wise...well, suffice it to say we're nervous as can be about going over their allowed usage...

thoughts? advice? warnings?

thanks!

 

[RKS]

I was referring to the ink that we use in offset for the pre-printed.

 

[sbs01]

my mistake. misread. what i was asking about was printing OVER the km printouts - whether they "melted" if put back through various laser printers...(would expect opffset put through would work fine but have been copiously warned about trying to print over laser printouts...)

km rep said the 7000 exceled at this but since he also quote extra low "fuse temp" i can't help but wondering, if ink fuses at low temp, why wouldn't it melt back off at low temp, too?

thoughts?

and thanks!

 

[RKS]

As far as I know the only machine out there that can have product run back through it is the MGI DP60 Pro. Their toner is also laser proof, so that you can print letterheads, etc on it and the customer can run it through their laser to imprint on it.

 

[ffashe]

Does the MGI DP60 Pro duplex?

 

[RKS]

Auto-duplex to 260gsm - Who knows might go higher.
Paper capabilities: Will run upto 350gsm
Plastic: Will run upto 16pt
Envelopes: Upto 12.4 x 14.2 inches

 

[ffashe]

What is the price range on this device and how are the consumables priced. Do you have any idea?

 

[KMPP]

KM C7000 has a better handling for variety of materials than X700, so if your may have to print on different material and want a expected result, you can go for the C7000.

by the way, dont trust me, go to test machine with as many type of paper as possible when u go for the demo

 

[mogrsi]

If it's available in your country, ask for a demo of Xerox Docucolor DC5000AP: very likely you'll have a good price and a -->perfect<-- automatic duplex up to 300gsm, with no change in printing speed.
Yes, the output will be a little bit glossier than the X700, but the print is, IMHO, very-very good.
The registration back/front is much better since the DC5000AP has not only electronic registration but also a mechanical system to register the paper.
This should be a very reliable solution at a bargain price (probably).

 

[sbs01]

Auto-duplex to 260gsm - Who knows might go higher.
Paper capabilities: Will run upto 350gsm
Plastic: Will run upto 16pt
Envelopes: Upto 12.4 x 14.2 inches

okay, so sounds fabulous...any idea on price? ppc charges? any service issue commentary?

and thanks!

 

[mogrsi]

MGI DP60: has anybody seen or tested it?
watching the video on youtube it seems a "naked" KM6501 customized and with different and more precise paper input/output; the rip is EFI but the printer UI is personalized.

If this is true you won't have real advantages over KM6501, except for input registration.

 

[Hightower]

That is true, zero advantages, unless you need to print on plastics. (PVC,PP,PC, or syntetics like Yupo or similar)

 

[Hightower]

or envelopes and letterheads

 

[Bec]

We have 700 and it doesn't like anythng printed with spray powder, label paper, or duplexing over #100. Routine marks are a problem for our regular tech - that sometimes makes matters worse! Relaying this information to a Xerox manager has no effect - as the Xerox 700 is down a week at a time.

 

[X33]

We have 700 and it doesn't like anythng printed with spray powder, label paper, or duplexing over #100.

The Xerox 700 is not designed for this.

Whatever media you use (paper or labels), make sure it is for digital printing.

Auto Duplexing on the Xerox 700 is up to 80lb cover only.

 

[Bec]

The Xerox 700 is not designed for this.

Whatever media you use (paper or labels), make sure it is for digital printing.

Auto Duplexing on the Xerox 700 is up to 80lb cover only.

According to the Xerox spec sheets we were given:
The 700 does manual duplexing up to 110 lb cover - our experience is that the heavy paper jams more whether printing 1 side or not.

The label paper we use is for digital presses but also jams more.

Our regular tech doesn't respond with ETA in an hour or show up the next day to actually fix a problem - as Xerox says is supposed to happen.