Xerox Color 1000 Press

[joetheprinter]

Xerox has just announced its new 5/6 color digital print engine:

Fuji Xerox Providing Higher Added Value in Applications and Leading the Color Production Printing Market

Has anyone got any news on this thing yet?

It looks like an iGen but with 700 feeders/finishers? What is it?!

 

[UberTech]

Japanese developement meeting:"This IGEN thing is never going to fly, lets make one that works".

 

[joetheprinter]

2500 iGens globally since their release. That makes for a very heavy flying machine.

 

[Keith]

Half a million dollars?! Who the hell is buyin' 'em?! What kind of volume does it take to consider one of those? You probaly need to run a hell of a lot of VDP and charge very well for it.

 

[kslight]

If you haven't gotten yourself into trouble with a big lease on an iGen that you don't have the volume to pay for, for sure one of these will knock you off your feet. Aren't most printers looking for more cost effective ways to do things not more expensive ways? I think Xerox is out of touch with the market a little...

 

[Josh]

I think you can probably take the pricing with a pinch of salt...

The 1000 is listed at 45,000,000 yen whereas if you search the Fuji-Xerox site for the equivelent iGen4 press release this is priced at 85,000,000 and the DocuColor 5000 is at 14,800,000... converted to GBP that comes out at £100,000... and they're selling at half that.

I'm guessing these are the long awaited 7/8000 replacements (anyone (no really, did anyone?) who bought a 7/8002 will be kicking themselves)

Sound good on the face of it though!

 

[Josh]

Slightly more detailed analysis at InfoTrends: InfoTrends InfoBlog » Fuji Xerox Announces New High-Speed Cut-Sheet Color Products Using Chemical Toners

 

[rtesta]

We'll see if it just adds to the iGen line, replaces the 7002/8002, or merges the two products together.

I wonder is the 1000 will need the same space / HVAC / electrical requirements as the iGen or the 8002...... makes a difference as you all know.

The thing I love the most is up to 6 colors...FINALLY!

I'd love to see a larger sheet size though 16"x25"?

 

[X33]

Half a million dollars?! Who the hell is buyin' 'em?! What kind of volume does it take to consider one of those? You probaly need to run a hell of a lot of VDP and charge very well for it.

If you are still selling static applications such as business cards and brochures, you are not providing any added value to your product, and the consumer can find thousands like you that can do it for less.

You need to differentiate yourself from the rest (like in any other industry with any other product). VDP is one option, and yes, it brings much higher profits that allow you to buy one of this $500k units at relatively low print volumes.

 

[UberTech]

Don't want to rain on any parade here but...

"A new full-color tandem engine with a “large diameter seamless intermediate transfer belt” to allow rated speed output for all paper weights"

Transfer belts have been seamless since there inception.

" a newly developed belt roll fuser"

Just like a konica, nice to see them catch up.

Is this a new engine or a rehash of the IGEN? I would say this will be a vecels engine.

As with others, the price is obsurd and you could buy two engines from another vendor and have a higher sheet output with redundancy.

 

[Josh]

The point on the prices was that they won't actually sell for anything like that, if it works on a similar formula to the other machines (i.e half list) then it will be around £150-200k which doesn't seem unreasonable for a 100ppm machine (comparing to Nexpress, Indigo etc).... admittedly we'll have to wait and see for US/UK pricing as it will have a lot to do with exchange rates and where they're trying to pitch it in the market.

The big development is the use of EA toner and dry fuser (same flat output as the 250 and 700 series) but being able to do this at rated speed on all stocks. As mentioned on Infotrends the cost of production for the "grown" rather than "ground" toners is far less, so it will be interesting to see what kind of running costs the machine has... especially since the 7/8000 using conventional toner are already down at the 3p mark.

Yes the fuser must be exactly the same as the konica... that must be why the konica can run all stocks at rated speed too... oh wait.

 

[joetheprinter]

Konica guy... your song is getting tedious. Let's wait and see what this new engine is really all about before we denigrate it. Only a few months to go for it's full release, then let's dissect the hell out of it.

 

[lfelton]

The point on the prices was that they won't actually sell for anything like that, if it works on a similar formula to the other machines (i.e half list) then it will be around £150-200k which doesn't seem unreasonable for a 100ppm machine (comparing to Nexpress, Indigo etc).... admittedly we'll have to wait and see for US/UK pricing as it will have a lot to do with exchange rates and where they're trying to pitch it in the market.

The big development is the use of EA toner and dry fuser (same flat output as the 250 and 700 series) but being able to do this at rated speed on all stocks. As mentioned on Infotrends the cost of production for the "grown" rather than "ground" toners is far less, so it will be interesting to see what kind of running costs the machine has... especially since the 7/8000 using conventional toner are already down at the 3p mark.

Yes the fuser must be exactly the same as the konica... that must be why the konica can run all stocks at rated speed too... oh wait.

Josh - I must get you to to negotiate my next purchase! Xerox can't get anywhere near the capital or click rates you're mentioning. Maybe its becaus we only do about 2 million colour clicks a year?

 

[tppsg]

More about the Color 1000 / 800 Press

A rough translation from the fuji xerox website.

- The listed price in yen of the Color 800 press is similar to DC 8000
- 100 A4 impressions per minute for the Color 1000 press and 80 A4 impressions per minute for the Color 800 press
- Supports uncoated/coated sheets from 55gsm to 350gsm. IGen4 supports uncoated sheets from 60gsm onwards and coated sheets from 90gsm onwards
- Maximum sheet size of 330mm X 488mm (13" X 19") and maximum printable area of 326mm X 484mm
- Print engine runs at rated speed for all stocks
- First high-end printers to employ the Emulsion Aggregation-Eco Toner, or EA-Eco Toner
- Newly developed belt roll fuser, which is capable of maintaining stable fusing temperature even during high-speed printing
- A 40cm long cooling mechanism as part of standard install to eliminate sticky printed sheets
- Ability to customize 17 attributes for each stock type ranging from paper size to fusing temperature
- Newly developed Clear Toner adds specialty to application design such as glossy finish and watermark printing
- Ability to specify usage of clear toner from RIP. Example applications includes printing of clear toner on photo data only or on printed areas only.

 

[Harrob]

This machine is certainly not a rehash of the Igen. The engine has been built between Xerox Corp and Fuji Xerox to use the build quality of the Igen but with the imaging technology designed for the 700DCP. What it means is that you get an extremely high build quality and solid construction but with the image quality available from the 700DCP so really the best of both worlds. With EA toner and the ability to auto duplex 350gsm it is not really worthy of a comment from a Konica employee.

In terms of the fuser there is no comparison in the size and technology compared to that of the Konica machine. The fuser section is almost the same size as the whole Konica engine!!

The transfer belt is new technology in the way it is constructed and transfer belts have not always been completely seamless there has always been a point on the belt that cannot have an image transferred to it.

The price is retail pricing. As everyone knows it is extremely rare that a customer would ever pay anything close to the retail price of any printing device from any vendor.

I would suggest getting the facts first before making comments like that.

I have been an employee of KM and I know that machine inside out, the one and only machine that Konica have to fit in to all markets. If Konica decided to do some R&D then maybe we would have a chance to talk your machinery down for once.

 

[rtesta]

I wonder if colors 5 and 6 can be used for spot UV....
That'd be nice.

I'm an iGen Program Manager and I don't have details on this yet. As soon as I do I'll share with everyone.

 

[Craig]

If you are still selling static applications such as business cards and brochures, you are not providing any added value to your product, and the consumer can find thousands like you that can do it for less.

You need to differentiate yourself from the rest (like in any other industry with any other product). VDP is one option, and yes, it brings much higher profits that allow you to buy one of this $500k units at relatively low print volumes.

I am so sick of every sales monkey talking about VDP! OK you've beat the dead horse already. Almost everyone I have been in contact with in the last 5 years we have been printing variable data has called it a glorified mail merge. It's not the golden ticket, I make FAR more from static prints than variable data.

Now Xerox is grasping at straws when they try to tell someone that they can justify an iGen with less than 100K prints/month. Of course it's all about the sale!

 

[Keith]

I am so sick of every sales monkey talking about VDP! OK you've beat the dead horse already. Almost everyone I have been in contact with in the last 5 years we have been printing variable data has called it a glorified mail merge. It's not the golden ticket, I make FAR more from static prints than variable data.

Now Xerox is grasping at straws when they try to tell someone that they can justify an iGen with less than 100K prints/month. Of course it's all about the sale!

Thanks Craig. I thought maybe I offended X33 or was a complete idiot for selling more static jobs than variable jobs. Don't get me wrong. I like VDP. But most of my customers either don't care, don't understand and/or can not justify the added expense. Perhaps I'm selling it wrong. (A very good possibility.) You know where I make my money? Fast turn around of static jobs. My customers order what they need, when they need it.

"I'm leaving for a trade show tonight and I'm out of business cards!!!! Help me!"

"Sure, no problem. How many do you need?"

"Just a couple of hundred."

"That'll be $500.00, please"

"Here's the cash! Thanks Keith! You're the best....the best....best......beeeesssst......

BEEP! BEEP! BEEP!

Yawn! "Wow. What a nice dream."

 

[UberTech]

This machine is certainly not a rehash of the Igen. The engine has been built between Xerox Corp and Fuji Xerox to use the build quality of the Igen but with the imaging technology designed for the 700DCP. What it means is that you get an extremely high build quality and solid construction but with the image quality available from the 700DCP so really the best of both worlds. With EA toner and the ability to auto duplex 350gsm it is not really worthy of a comment from a Konica employee.

In terms of the fuser there is no comparison in the size and technology compared to that of the Konica machine. The fuser section is almost the same size as the whole Konica engine!!

The transfer belt is new technology in the way it is constructed and transfer belts have not always been completely seamless there has always been a point on the belt that cannot have an image transferred to it.

The price is retail pricing. As everyone knows it is extremely rare that a customer would ever pay anything close to the retail price of any printing device from any vendor.

I would suggest getting the facts first before making comments like that.

I have been an employee of KM and I know that machine inside out, the one and only machine that Konica have to fit in to all markets. If Konica decided to do some R&D then maybe we would have a chance to talk your machinery down for once.

"The transfer belt is new technology in the way it is constructed and transfer belts have not always been completely seamless there has always been a point on the belt that cannot have an image transferred to it."

Essentially your entire comment is flawed by this one comment. I have NEVER seen a transfer belt with a seam on any machine I have worked on, Xerox or konica.

If infact you had "been an employee of KM and I know that machine inside out" you would know that all Konica machines have no seam or timeing marks for that matter to account for a seam.

Im not sure Im the one that needs to get his facts right here.

I am impressed you know the size of the fuser when we have only seen a product shot.

Im sure it is a great engine, clear toner is a great idea, glad canon thought of it. My gripe is that they send this sales speel out when infact its new to Xerox not to the world. It's a bit like going to car sales yard and the car salesman says "This car is quite innovative, it has electric windows".

 

[joetheprinter]

Clear toner is just a teaser. Within 6-8 months after the Japan release we'll see the six color (extended gamut) capabilities of this engine as well as custom color. The finer details regarding the rip architecture are being worked out but not complete yet, so clear toner is just a way of marking time while FX and XC decide which print server will be released into the European and American markets (it'll either be FreeFlow or G-series).