Going from offset/web prepress to digital printing

[gig0]

ok thats great but obviously someone is happy with the performance of the 1050, otherwise we wouldn't stick with Konika. That kind of makes sense, don't you think?

 

[gig0]

also, Craig,

considering what I've learned so far from you guys, my Christmas wish this year is for you and Random to add each other to your friends list. That would be awesome!

 

[rsands]

doubt that wud happen

 

[Craig]

I have no problem with Random, from what I have gathered from this forum he is very knowledgeable when it comes to maintaining a Konica Minolta, but it's obvious he does not understand what print for pay production means. Much like every other service technician we have had. They don't understand that the nice shiny digital press sitting idle on the floor is costing me $38.00/hour, every hour not figuring the loss in production, with that it is more like $432.00/hour lost. All while I wait for a cleaning web to be replaced that takes 5 minutes.

 

[PineyBob]

I have no problem with Random, from what I have gathered from this forum he is very knowledgeable when it comes to maintaining a Konica Minolta, but it's obvious he does not understand what print for pay production means. Much like every other service technician we have had. They don't understand that the nice shiny digital press sitting idle on the floor is costing me $38.00/hour, every hour not figuring the loss in production, with that it is more like $432.00/hour lost. All while I wait for a cleaning web to be replaced that takes 5 minutes.

Well Said Craig!

The problem IMO is the entire Office Products Industry understands little and cares less about what printers face daily. As someone who has been on both sides of the fence in both industries I often wonder how any business gets transacted.

After all of these years the level of knowledge and understanding of each others business challenges is in a word stunning.

 

[Yann]

That c6500 is a tank, I find it less picky that our iGen. Great buy.

 

[jbh]

let me throw me 2 cents worth in here...
we run 2 xerox and a KM6500, the KM has done over 2 million clicks in 16 months. We throw everything at it, from NCR paper to 350gsm coated matt! Sure it has it's moments, but on the whole it's our most continually productive machine we have. My next buy (not too long from now) is the KM6501 with Creo controller (we run creo on both the xerox as well). gig0, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the KM6501 + Creo will interface with Prinergy, and has hot folders etc.
I've been in the print for pay environment for 14 years and to date, the 6500/6501 offers the best value for money / quality / ability that I can tell.
This post may get me shot down in flames, but that's my experience to date!

 

[UberTech]

Yes, I would say you should prepare for a flaming. Although your comments are the consensus of most users of this product the old school find this a very bitter pill to contemplate. So bitter in fact they will reject you as someone who has completely lost their mind and therefore an unreliable source of information.

Thanks for your feedback……psycho.

Own or operate a c65XX/55XX/1050 then add me as a friend!

 

[Craig]

Yes, I would say you should prepare for a flaming. Although your comments are the consensus of most users of this product the old school find this a very bitter pill to contemplate. So bitter in fact they will reject you as someone who has completely lost their mind and therefore an unreliable source of information.

Thanks for your feedback……psycho.

I will not flame! (usually reserved for Random ) But I do have 2 questions. How much of what jbh is running is uncoated text weight vs coated text vs cover weights(both coated and not)? Also what sheet size are you mostly running?

85% of what I print is 100lb Gloss text and 100lb Gloss Cover, when I did test on the KM6500 all stocks went through and came out with an image but, it was very flat and dull looking on gloss stock. It reminded me of running gloss stock on our IR5000 B/W.

My opinion of the KM 6500/6501 is that it has its place JUST like every other device. Some folks on this forum will lead you to believe that they are the best thing since sliced bread and are the answer for EVERYONE.

 

[JRV]

Since your workflow is already with Kodak I would talk with the Kodak prepress/workflow rep. I don't know what front end your 6501 will have, but if it's the Creo, that's made by Kodak as well, so all the more reason. Sounds like you're in Cleveland and I know the Kodak folks there. Very good people.

 

[jbh]

craig,
you're absolutely right, gloss stock is not ideal on the KM6500! I mostly run coated stock (magno), 135gsm-350gsm, sheet size always 320x455mm. And quite interestingly, my customers have moved away from gloss to matt (coated) stock more and more over the last couple of years.

 

[Craig]

my customers have moved away from gloss to matt (coated) stock more and more over the last couple of years.

I wish I could say the same here, just the opposite! Now I am finding myself spending another $40,000.00 for a Digifold!

 

[[email protected]]

Entertaining

Entertaining

This was a good thread. So good in fact I had to make some popcorn

You guys are giving independent copier dealers an unfair bad rap.

How long is the typical manufacturers' warranty? Something like 90 days? So you buy a $100,000 laser printer and the manufacturer only covers the first 90 days and the independent dealer for some odd reason has to assume all the risk for maybe the next five years.

All at the same time you printing companies and quick copy shops want to pay fractions of a thousandths of a penny or pennies for a color image and expect the machine to work not only perfectly but perform to the standard of a million dollar press. It's always amazing that someone who can sell a b/w print for a nickel tries to pinch me down to 0.002/0.003 or whatever for the same print.

Oh but Patrick, we have to pay for our buildings and staff. Yes, and so do we the service providers, and we may have to travel an hour or two to get to your place to fix the machine.

People need to get grounded. No one seems to realize that if one part breaks on that machine that you may have to print a few hundred thousand pages just to cover the cost basis of said part!

You the consumer and we the seller have f*cked us all over, as well as the manufacturer. Manufacturer pushes sales of more boxes. Dealers undercut dealers just to make the sales quotas. Printers penny pinch because they don't want to spend a million bucks to buy a machine they need and overkill a big laser printer that they've disillusioned themselves into thinking it's a "press" and that somehow it can do the volume and things a press does. While at the same time making the profits so small (if there even are any) for the dealer that it's not even worth selling some of this stuff anymore. Of course the printers let the end users of printed collateral bully them into lowering their prices too low and also do so to undercut the competition.

It's like every other product in the world. Everybody wants something just good enough for as cheap as they can get it. So things get made sh*ttier and cheaper and things don't hold up. Whether it's food or bookcases made of cardboard, or big laser printer "presses", or sh*tty repair service; you get what you pay for.

 

[arossetti]

I agree with everything you said except:

Printers penny pinch because they don't want to spend a million bucks to buy a machine they need and overkill a big laser printer that they've disillusioned themselves into thinking it's a "press" and that somehow it can do the volume and things a press does.

We didn't disillusion ourselves, you the plastic box sales people sold us on "thinking its a press". All of the manufactures call their laser printers "Digital Presses" now. They decide what the recommended average monthly volumes should be, we just hit those numbers and expect you (sales/service/manufacture) to stand behind what you sold.

 

[[email protected]]

Understandable but you still take some blame.

First, do a search of my same name on copytechnet and you'll find that I from day one have always held the belief that these were just bigger more complex more expensive laser printers. I still believe that.

Unfortunately, many sales people have damaged most of our reputations by not fully understanding what they're selling and only caring about the bottom line...but printing company salespeople do it too. It's not right but NEVER believe what one is being told.

It's a hard lesson to learn and I've been burned too. Even manufacturers reps will tell you this a great machine and it can make you breakfast and clean the house...and it never does.

My question is these "digital presses" have been out a while now but everybody seems to have one. Why are people still buying knowing the bad history and shortcomings? Are people still believing the same salespeople and apparently not learned their lesson?

Everyone has a due diligence to cut through the crap and make sure something is what it is. Why aren't units being returned? False sales claims being challenged? You can't just sit there and take it.

You gotta fight for your rights!

I agree with everything you said except:



We didn't disillusion ourselves, you the plastic box sales people sold us on "thinking its a press". All of the manufactures call their laser printers "Digital Presses" now. They decide what the recommended average monthly volumes should be, we just hit those numbers and expect you (sales/service/manufacture) to stand behind what you sold.