Switching from a Xerox 550 to a C60 or Versant 80?

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
Hi,

I am somehow still in the printing industry & it has overtaken the other aspects of the business to the extent we are now solely focused on print & do rather well actually.

After a 3 yr lease on a 560 which has been a huge learning curve, due to complaining about the 560 not holding alignment I have been offered a versant 80 or a C60 (which we're mainly interested in for the SIQA)

I am quite good at getting the alignment right manually now but it still takes a lot of time & paper & I feel the only way to grow is to solve the alignment puzzle.

I'm looking for some advice on the machines from someone who isn't trying to sell me anything :)

Does SIQA really make a huge difference?

IS the print quality any better? or are all 3 basically the same...print speed makes no difference to us.

We only run 200gsm mondi stock & we're solely focused on posters....I have NO interest at all in printing leaflets, menus or business cards...because there's like 20 printers in my city & it's a race to the bottom on price online too, so I'd rather sell printed products than a printing service.

I realise the above statement says I should probably look into equipment dedicated to poster printing.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Thanks, Karl
 

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
Our Versant 180 is great. SIQA is very easy compare to the J75 we used to have. Only need to adjust registration on stocks once or twice per year. I would get something with a bit more production capabilities so that you can sell into it as you grow rather than buy the same machine again. Also I think the PrimeLink is the newest generation of the 560/570 + C60/C70 line.
 

Shaare

Well-known member
I've spent the last five years doing mostly C60 and Versants and Iridesses now. You won't regret the Versant its a different class of machine. If you do a lot of walk up copies however you have to know it takes 50 seconds or so from dead cold to print a sheet.
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
Hi :)

I never print 1 or 2 off, its always a printing session but I find the alignment with the 550 goes off very easily and sometimes I'm wasting a lot of paper chasing a fraction of a mm because our machine seems to ignore changes in alignment settings and just puts things where it wants to.

We even have the machine perfectly aligned for mono & then you switch to colour and it's totally off & ignores the test printouts so I'm done battling the machine.

I can easily spend 3 hours printing 30 sheets... I know that sounds insane.

This is the main reason we're switching.

Is the image quality better on the versant vs the C60? Having read the brochure i see the versant says it's "ultra HD" but that sounds just like sales pitch to me.

Cheers for your thoughts.

Karl
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
Wow adjusting once or twice a year sounds good, i sometimes have to tinker with alignment after a few sheets on the 550 we have. It causes huge delays for us & wastes a lot of paper & time.
 

kdw75

Well-known member
We started out with a 560 then got a C75 before getting a Versant 2100, which is similar to the V80. The C75 provided a significantly better experience. The 2100 was mainly just faster. In my opinion the V80 or any C75 or J75 would be a great investment.

The Ultra HD isn't worth talking about. The V80 will register better. In my opinion the 550,560 and 570 aren't worth looking at for production.
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
I agree about the 550, we mainly got it to do leaflets but after about 18 months of trying that & getting nowhere but approaching bankruptcy we switched to posters because with leaflets it would jam consistently.

After multiple engineer visits our click provider blaimed the paper, though the engineers disagreed.

Registration is terrible on the machines,, always changing & ours would easily wear out a fuser printing 1000 sheets & you really need fusers specifically to print different sizes because the fusers get grooves worn in the roll quickly & you can only use them for that size afterwards.

I will get an agreement on the new machine today & post my experiences on here.

Thanks for your help folks :)

Karl
 

mojoprime

Well-known member
we upgraded from a v80 to v180 and it's a beast, actually, a megladon. we call it the meg. i calibrate every monday and every time i change more than one drum or toner cartridge. spot color is perfect. i had to do manual SIQA on the v80 but the document feeder on this one takes the 280 gsm we put through it great. we're moving to 300 gsm so i don't know if it'll do that or not. registration is good but sometimes slides a bit. seems to actually get better over time. extra oversize feeder was worth it. wish we got the performance package.
 
SIQA does make a difference. The c60 has good image quality but can't do structured stocks, doesn't duplex 300gsm, can't do envelopes, 660mm sheets and has little SIQA tools and alignment is manual. The Versant is a big step up. Also consider the Ricoh c5200 or wait until the new c5300. These offer better image quality and media handling.
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
Just committed to a Versant 180. Costs less than what we were paying for the 550. It's brand new instead of refurbed & the click charges are less than half of what we currently pay. Looking forward to it's arrival.
 

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
Just committed to a Versant 180. Costs less than what we were paying for the 550. It's brand new instead of refurbed & the click charges are less than half of what we currently pay. Looking forward to it's arrival.
Nice! You'll really like the machine. It runs really well except for stock. It has a really hard time running that. Hopefully you don't need to run any of that!
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
Still not got my Versant 180 due to all of the UK lockdowns. The 550 eats so much paper...I can print for 3 hours to get 10 posters aligned enough to send out. I'd suggest not getting a 550 to anyone. Having to have the Versant installed through a living room window when it does come.
 

Ynot_UK

Well-known member
I was going to suggest looking at the new KM 4065/4070/4080 until you mentioned loading in through a living room window!

Lockdowns are a poor excuse by your vendor for taking four months to fail to provide an installation. Find a new supplier. We raised a purchase order for a new C4080 the day after global launch (2nd Dec) and were installed the week before Xmas.

Registration is excellent and as you’re into posters, the banner capabilities could provide you additional opportunity.
 
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gazfocus

Well-known member
I agree to anyone looking at buying a used Xerox 550/560 DONT!!! We started out with a 560, had such high expectations, and it was such a disappointment. We too had issues with it not aligning from one page to another, made printing so difficult. We were constantly told by the Xerox engineers that the 550/560 weren’t designed as print shop/production machines and even though we only did a modest number of pages, I honestly dreaded using it every time.

We are similar to the OP where we don’t really touch leaflets etc (unless we are specifically asked to), and we mostly print posters (for retail) and stickers. We decided that it’s much more profitable for us as a business to focus on end products rather than high volume printing.

We upgraded about 18 months ago to a Konica C3070 and couldn’t be happier. My only gripe with Konica is that the finishing options are so expensive compared to Xerox, but it is what it is.

We’ve actually also just ordered a refurbished Xerox C60. I’ve been told by a few people that it’s in the same ‘category’ as the 560 in that it’s not really a production machine but for what we want it for (stickers), it should be fine. We also managed to get a decent click rate of 3p a sheet on it. I’ve not had the printer delivered yet so can’t comment on it.
 

bcr

Well-known member
I was going to suggest looking at the new KM 4065/4070/4080 until you mentioned loading in through a living room window!

Lockdowns are a poor excuse by your vendor for taking four months to fail to provide an installation. Find a new supplier. We raised a purchase order for a new C4080 the day after global launch (2nd Dec) and were installed the week before Xmas.

Registration is excellent and as you’re into posters, the banner capabilities could provide you additional opportunity.

yeah and if it's the same supplier that has never got your current machine working to an acceptable standard, i'd be having serious doubts as well.

I hope you're not paying click charges on all those prints that are having to be binned? At the very least I'd be contesting a significant amount of the click charges if so much printed output had to be binned.
 

PrintingInLincs

Well-known member
Well we were so busy in the run up to Christmas I delayed it until the new year because I couldn't focus on anything but orders really.

(I'm a 1 man band)

I've totally switched supplier for the new machine.

I just want to reiterate how bad the 550's are...i'm literally chasing alignment all day & hoping the print lands in the right place. Huge waste of time & materials & don't bother trying to print leaflets on the thing. You can print 10 sheets & they'll be in a different spot each time.

I'm hoping that I can manage to print 10 properly aligned posters per hour & then I can use the time savings to find new products to offer...or just see my family outside of my print room for longer.

I don't think i'd dare switch to anything but Xerox, although I did consider a mimaki for a while so we could focus on A2/A1+ more.

I'm not being unreasonable thinking I should be able to get 10 posters done in an hour right? I like my margins to be 3mm around the print & with no dust or specs trapped under the toner...it's not much to ask.

Cheers, Karl
 

gazfocus

Well-known member
Well we were so busy in the run up to Christmas I delayed it until the new year because I couldn't focus on anything but orders really.

(I'm a 1 man band)

I've totally switched supplier for the new machine.

I just want to reiterate how bad the 550's are...i'm literally chasing alignment all day & hoping the print lands in the right place. Huge waste of time & materials & don't bother trying to print leaflets on the thing. You can print 10 sheets & they'll be in a different spot each time.

I'm hoping that I can manage to print 10 properly aligned posters per hour & then I can use the time savings to find new products to offer...or just see my family outside of my print room for longer.

I don't think i'd dare switch to anything but Xerox, although I did consider a mimaki for a while so we could focus on A2/A1+ more.

I'm not being unreasonable thinking I should be able to get 10 posters done in an hour right? I like my margins to be 3mm around the print & with no dust or specs trapped under the toner...it's not much to ask.

Cheers, Karl
We went with a Konica C3070 in the end which is in the same ‘class’ as the V180. We do similar to you where we print posters, etc, on 350gsm silk coated. We get about 40 posters a minute (all the same).

I don’t know what your workflow is like but if it’s just printing you’re referring to, I suspect you’ll get those 10 posters printed in a matter of minutes rather than an hour.

I have learnt that the biggest way to improve your workflow is to set up your paper catalog properly on your machine. We still haven’t really done this as we just don’t have time so we have to set paper type/weight/tray/etc each time, but for the paper types that we do have set up, it’s a breeze.
 

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